Roland Boutique D-05 vs. D-50

[bill45]

Geez, to me anyone who tried to program one of these before and still wants a matchbox version must always want to go second playing rochambo.

I wonder if anybody is thinking of programming at all. A rather large bank of useful sounds might be the reason - not factory ones, just out there as sysex.

I had 6 Crystal cartridges with nice stuff when I had my D50.

But rather have been looking at Integra -7 or a FA-06 with 2000 sounds from Integras's 6000.
There a bunch of Integra for sale but prices are still too high.

We can never have too many sounds, can we?

I just went through Nordlead 2X 700 factory presets and see what I want to work on further. And NL2X is really fun working with. Just close you eyes and turn some knobs and up it comes interesting things.

Fiddling with guitars and amps and you come up with a really nice sound - this is inspiration for at least one song based on that.

Lfm,Do you have the Voice crystal Keith Emerson card for the d50,how is it?

[himalaya]

Whether or not you find this logical is a matter of perspective.

All of life is a matter of perspective, and from mine, from where I'm sitting that design was unhelpful, not intutive to use, lacking in logic.

The idea is that tones provide the basis of construction for patches. If you're editing tones in patches then you're doing it wrong.

I'm doing it completely right. Even the Roland MKS-70 manual tells me so, quote:
"Call the Patch to be edited and while actually listening to the sound, edit the Tone A and B of which the Patch consists"

A single patch may contain several of these tones and it's quite normal, totally right to want to edit the sound in context of hearing the tones.

If you had a tone that represents piano attack and you found a way to improve that tone for greater realism, then all of your piano patches would experience the greater realism when you edited the tone.

This mistakenly presumes that I want to share the attack across other pianos. It's the user who should decide if that should happen and not the operating system of the synth.
And in contrast, if i decide to make a tone within my lush pad, a cross-modulated variant and press overwrite by mistake, all my lush pads will be destroyed. Not very nice and not user friendly.

If you are using the Yamaha method then you now have to copy this new realistic attack to all of your pianos.

That's exactly what i want. I want to decide if i want to copy the new realistic attack or not. The old Roland system is designed in such a way that it makes sound design in context of a composite patch awkward, unpleasant and unintuitive, hence for these reason it's not logical for me ( you are welcome to argue this point until Digital Native Dance becomes an EDM hit).

If you view your tones as building blocks for patches ....

However you view it, to play a sound, we select patches and not tones. In fact, I can not select a tone without its associated patch (at least on my MKS-70). So it's perfectly understandable, in addition to the reason given above, that we edit within the patch.

There was a very good review of this system in Sound On Sound. Unfortunately, such reviews are no longer accessible for free online. The reviewer, an experienced musician and synthesist, also recognised this issue and highlighted its deficiency beautifully.

[ghettosynth]

Whether or not you find this logical is a matter of perspective.

All of life is a matter of perspective, and from mine, from where I'm sitting that design was unhelpful, not intutive to use, lacking in logic.

That simply means that you don't understand the logic. Sorry mate, I'm not going to get into a long winded debate with you. I can see that you don't like it but you've said nothing to dispel the "logic" of how it works.

It makes perfect sense to me, and as someone who appreciates that type of abstraction, I can see the logic in it.

[lfm]

Lfm,Do you have the Voice crystal Keith Emerson card for the d50,how is it?

Sorry, I don't remember for sure - I got rid of my D50 more than 10 years ago.
But don't think Emerson was one of them - I am a big Hammond fan, so I think I would have remembered.

I bought it used with these 6 cartridges, and sold it complete like that as well.

Not sure how D-50 cartridge work compared to JV-80 which also could contain an oscillator on card, meaning the basic JV-80 could not sound the same without that oscillator.

But if those making the voice crystal cards sell these as sysex I would not mind buying them and also a D-05 to use them on.

[fmr]

Lfm,Do you have the Voice crystal Keith Emerson card for the d50,how is it?

Sorry, I don't remember for sure - I got rid of my D50 more than 10 years ago.
But don't think Emerson was one of them - I am a big Hammond fan, so I think I would have remembered.

I bought it used with these 6 cartridges, and sold it complete like that as well.

Not sure how D-50 cartridge work compared to JV-80 which also could contain an oscillator on card, meaning the basic JV-80 could not sound the same without that oscillator.

But if those making the voice crystal cards sell these as sysex I would not mind buying them and also a D-05 to use them on.

Beely did a conversion of a lot of D-50 sounds for the D-50 VST. The download included the SYX files, which I believe can be loaded in the D-05. You can check the link in this thread (don't know if it's still active): http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p6819783

[himalaya]

Whether or not you find this logical is a matter of perspective.

All of life is a matter of perspective, and from mine, from where I'm sitting that design was unhelpful, not intutive to use, lacking in logic.

That simply means that you don't understand the logic. Sorry mate, I'm not going to get into a long winded debate with you. I can see that you don't like it but you've said nothing to dispel the "logic" of how it works.

It makes perfect sense to me, and as someone who appreciates that type of abstraction, I can see the logic in it.

I don't need to dispel the "logic" of how it works.
To my way of working, understanding, and expectation of how a synth OS should work, this old Roland tone-storing system is not logical. To me as a user. And the reason is that it's designed to trip the user ("oh shit, I've just overwritten this single tone mistakenly and the other 14 patches will be affected"), to make user go through needles steps to save variations of the tone multiple times, to make working with the tones unfriendly and awkward. For this reason there is no sense in designing such a system. Accept it or not. It appears that you have a great difficulty in understanding people's opinions and ways of working.

Sure, from a technical, engineering, signal-flow point of view, this old kludge of a system is logical. Of course. We can explain the most complex and unfriendly system and say that it's 'logical'. The dots can be connected. But for the end user - which is what this is about - the story may be different and things can make no sense, as has been proven by countless accounts of users coming to this patch-tone system and expressing their total bemusement. A system which had been carried forward to more modern Roland synths, like my XP-80, so the argument that it's related to cost is also difficult to accept.

Sorry mate, I'm not going to get into a long winded debate with you.

Well, I think you love that. Latching on to passing comments, which have no relation to the main thread topic. Just itching to say how somebody is wrong (did you read that Roland manual quote yet? ) how little they know, how their opinions are invalid. Then as the other person replies to validate their opinions you state that you are not going into a long winded debate, which you started in the first place. I wish you peace and tranquility. No need to think about this. Play some synth.

[himalaya]

Speaking of the D-05, it would make a cool module for live techno performances. Even the more cheesy patches will add interesting textures once the D-05 is hooked up to a nice multi-effect box.

A couple of analog synths, a drum machine and the D-05 could provide all the sounds.

I think it will be interesting to see how those old D-50 patches are used in modern context by people who have never used the original D-50. Kind of, reclaiming the sounds for a new generation. I think this is fascinating.

[lfm]

Beely did a conversion of a lot of D-50 sounds for the D-50 VST. The download included the SYX files, which I believe can be loaded in the D-05. You can check the link in this thread (don't know if it's still active): http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p6819783

Appreciate it, thank you.

[ghettosynth]

Whether or not you find this logical is a matter of perspective.

All of life is a matter of perspective, and from mine, from where I'm sitting that design was unhelpful, not intutive to use, lacking in logic.

That simply means that you don't understand the logic. Sorry mate, I'm not going to get into a long winded debate with you. I can see that you don't like it but you've said nothing to dispel the "logic" of how it works.

It makes perfect sense to me, and as someone who appreciates that type of abstraction, I can see the logic in it.

I don't need to dispel the "logic" of how it works.

Like I said, you don't understand the logic.

Sorry mate, I'm not going to get into a long winded debate with you.

Well, I think you love that.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, cares what you think about me. So get over it and move on.

[himalaya]

Are you some kind of primitive forum bot that lacks reading and comprehension skills? It looks like it.

[ghettosynth]

Are you some kind of primitive forum bot that lacks reading and comprehension skills? It looks like it.

Lame personal insults are not going to make you look any more intelligent. Like I said, let it go.

[himalaya]

I had to ask, because you've ignored all that I've written only latching on to a single word 'logic'. I think that is lame. That's a personal attack. That's ignoring somebody's effort to clarify one's position, which you conveniently ignore. So saying that I don't understand the logic will not make it true. You can repeat it ad nauseam and it still won't be true. You remind me of those who believe that earth is flat, keep repeating it and you will believe it too.

[bill45]

Lfm,Do you have the Voice crystal Keith Emerson card for the d50,how is it?

Sorry, I don't remember for sure - I got rid of my D50 more than 10 years ago.
But don't think Emerson was one of them - I am a big Hammond fan, so I think I would have remembered.

I bought it used with these 6 cartridges, and sold it complete like that as well.

Not sure how D-50 cartridge work compared to JV-80 which also could contain an oscillator on card, meaning the basic JV-80 could not sound the same without that oscillator.

But if those making the voice crystal cards sell these as sysex I would not mind buying them and also a D-05 to use them on.

Wow didn't know the JV cards added an oscilator
Thanks

[lfm]

Wow didn't know the JV cards added an oscilator
Thanks

There are two types of slots - one ordinary memory cartridge, and one where there can be, I think wavetable stuff of some sort. There are an hiddenous amount of extensions to JV and some series of Rolands in that time period - that goes into that other slot.

But these commercials rom cartridges - if they also could have wavetables and stuff that never were part of sysex transfer or even possible to transfer - don't know, just guessing a bit.

[ghettosynth]

I had to ask, because you've ignored all that I've written only latching on to a single word 'logic'.

Yes, the word that you misused.

That's a personal attack.

That's almost hilarious. It's not a personal attack, it's a choice to ignore your particular brand of nonsense.

You remind me of those who believe that earth is flat, keep repeating it and you will believe it too.

No amount of spin on this is going to give you the intellectual upper hand that you so desperately seek. You misused, and continue to misuse a word that you don't understand. Every attempt that you make to explain yourself only cements the case that you don't understand why the original design is, in fact, logical.

I corrected your misunderstanding of the word logical and gave you several examples that you can use to understand what I meant. No amount of whining, name calling, or referring to further illogical arguments is going to change my mind about your misunderstanding of the word.

Now, let it go. Do I need to get a moderator to help you let it go? You're way off topic, you are resorting to specific personal insults because you're butthurt that I won't engage your absurd counter non-points, which, is completely in my purview, and you are bordering on harassment. I've told you repeatedly that I don't wish to engage you in a point by point argument and that's simply the way it's going to be.

Breathe in the knowledge
Breathe out the ego
Breathe in the knowledge
Breathe out the ego...

Now, let it go...