Is there a user demo to try ?

[yzf125]

Hey guys, do they offer a user demo on any of their Evolution guitar vst's to try out before you buy ? I wish I could have caught the sale now I'm a bit reserved about dropping 180 on something I don't know if I will like. I have already demoed Ample Sound and Real Strat. I was not impressed at all with them, I thought they were horrible at best, my keyboard has better guitar sounds than they did.

Thanks

[Gregjazz]

Unfortunately, we aren't able to offer a trial demo version at this time--really just because Kontakt doesn't have a secure way of doing that.

That being said, we are looking into making some sort of content-limited demo available, or maybe a freebie guitar library so you can get a better idea of the Evolution guitar interface's capabilities.

[yzf125]

Thanks for replying !

Do you think Evolution Guitar is WAY better than the ones I mentioned I have tried ? because those were just horrible IMO. I like the demos I have seen/heard but that's not the same as actually using and playing your self. Are they going to run any new discounts anytime soon ? Cant believed I just discovered these a week to late I'm bummed !!!!!!!

Thanks

[EvilDragon]

I never liked RealGuitar engine based products, but Ample guitars are formiddable.

[yzf125]

Hi EvilDragon,

Do you feel the Evolution guitars "Play/ Sound" better than Ample ?

I like that Evolution has all the amps/cab and effects.

Thanks

[EvilDragon]

They're au pair... depending on project I might spring for one or other... or record a real guitar, for that matter

[Martyprod]

Hi EvilDragon,

Do you feel the Evolution guitars "Play/ Sound" better than Ample ?

I like that Evolution has all the amps/cab and effects.

Thanks

hi !!

I tried a lot of guitar sounds, owned a lot of them (prominy , etc...)

now i have the full guitar bundle (and all the basses too), and i don't regret my decision one second.

i'm maybe not fully objective, but it's the first time since i'm doing music (1987) that i have THE guitar sound on my keyboard which sound the way i want and always wanted.

here some short demos of tunes i'm actually working on.
the result is above my expectation. i would have never imagined that i could get "this sound" one day on a keyboard, and i still have some difficilties to beleive it when i'm playing and sounding like my guitar heroes ! (if you know them, i'm doing the same with "allan holdsworth" playing and tones, but andy summers, frank gambale and steve lukather actually, but so far, my best result is with michael landau because it's the one i'm working on almost full time actually.

here, except the drums, and the Pad and keyboards, everything come from orange tree products (bass, and guitars (clean and distored, lead and rythm).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRA3d-_5JK8

but to be short, what you heard as mp3 demo on the website of orange tree sample is what you really get.

but you must keep as well in consideration that these are instruments, so playing well will make the guitars sounding well. There is no magic !
if you're a beginner at keyboard, or you're not used to play guitars on keyboards, it will not necessary sound amazing out of the box. to be short, you must play and learn as well how to play these amazing instruments. what make the guitar sound great is to use the same technic than guitars. so using modewheel, pitch bend and other guitar technics (palmute, mute , etc..). on these demos, i didn't used any technics, except the modwheel vibrato, and the pitchbend.

i add that on my demos, i don't use the internal FX programmed for the guitars, i use an external virtual guitar plugin. the ones programmed with the guitars are great, and sound great, but's it's more to have a sound ready "out of the box".
for something specific (and that's what i needed), i had to use the guitar with an another FX plugin. but the sound i'm looking for and use and wanted is very specific,

[magicmusic]

maybe all devs that develop for Kontact, should contact the Kontakt developers, that they offer a demo feature. I never have buy any kontakt library, because i want test before i buy. important is for me how dynamic load work. I have a fast SSD and read access below 1 ms and over 280 megabte read speed. 10 ms latency is good enough for me. how fast can load your stratosphere plugin for a song and with which CPU is this measure ?.

for leads i wish a guitar VSTi that have a good sounding automatic vibrato that happen after 0.1 sec(best a choosable time) and fade in as a real guitar player do. the strength can reduce or increase with mod wheel. I can not play good sounding bends with pitch wheel

I have some songs i want test with guitar plugins before i buy. the lead sound from eric clapton layla, smoke on the water , gerry more stil get the blues

I have sample my own guitar. I sample no round robin but i sample it with good sounding vibrato that come after 0,1 sec delay and fade in.

heavier7string i see in demo this do not block load of a song, when it load the samples. seem it use a CPU core and load it in background. this is good. load of samples need around 8 sec on my system. and when the gitar track is the 1. track then if the song load time is 8 sec then no wait is need for heavier7string. but heavier 7string is no strat and have not so much features as your libs. the real strat demo load over 15 sec but have only 1/3 frets in demo. so full version load 45 sec i think. this is too much

i think load time is important, because best is when work not longer on same song to avoid habituation effect. this mean when work 2 hours on same song, then you get happy with the results. but when load this song in later and play then you are not happy anymore. so i play around 30 mins or so on one song and change to another 30 min and load other song in. and when a song load need 1 min this is boring. or i have some free time and i want edit my song, then i need wait 1 min before i can begin this is boring too. sure if a professional mucican work 8 hours on 1 song, the load time of 1 minute is not so much.

[Martyprod]

maybe all devs that develop for Kontact, should contact the Kontakt developers, that they offer a demo feature. I never have buy any kontakt library, because i want test before i buy

I agree, but the way the protection of kontakt work make this not possible i'm afraid and it will never happen. offering a trial is only possible with dongle based proctection like iLok or e-licencer.

how fast can load your stratosphere plugin for a song and with which CPU is this measure ?

i give approximative time (i didn't used a chronometer).
The Stratosphere is not a plugin by the way but a sound library.

i use Cubase PRo 9.5 on a windows 10 x64 bits system.

kontakt 5 load in 3 to 4 seconds in cubase or as a standalone.
the stratosphere library load in one seconde once it has been optimised (for this you must resave the library one time once it has been installed.
if you don't do this, the loading time take 6 to 7 seconds the first time you load it, and 2 to 3 secondes the next time you load it in a session.

My orange Tree Library are on a Crucial 1 Tb M.2 SSD MX300, and as system disk i have a Samsung 850 EVO 512gb.

[magicmusic]

I think its easy for kontakt developer to change kontakt that if no serial number is add for the third party library that it run in a demo mode the library developer can choose. for example some demos have white noise every 20 sec or so, other work 15 minutes or other work a choosable day after install.

or you do a library in same way musiclab do. see screenshot of the demo. the darker frets do not work in demo. but this is enough to test if it work good and can buy.

even with kontakt player such a free limit library work 15 minutes.

the load time you report look good. but i did not know what CPU version you have. I have a i5 760 4*2.8 with 12 GB Ram. I have a sample tank 3 se. the piano is 500 mb in size and load around 10 sec. thats only 50 Mb read speed. I have 840 evo too. do you know if the load on a 840 evo is noticable slower as on your m2 ssd ?. I think the speed brake is the compression and maybe encryption. maybe newer CPU are with AVX2 or decryption instructions much faster, i did not know, if kontakt have optimized code for new CPU instruction. please tell what CPU you have.in single core performance and cince bench or other, modern CPU are only around 50% faster than my CPU. Only in some encryption or decription tests or AVX2 they are more than 2* faster. benchmarks

[Martyprod]

I think its easy for kontakt developer to change kontakt that if no serial number is add for the third party library that it run in a demo mode the library developer can choose. for example some demos have white noise every 20 sec or so, other work 15 minutes or other work a choosable day after install.

the issue is simple and dev complained a lot to N.I Kontakt is not protected enough, and too easy to use unoficially, and because of this, all the library especially third party are at risk.
your suggestion to offer a limited instrument is absolutly the way to go, i don't know why nobody do it. offering just one octave, or other limitation but directly as a download from the dev, not in kontakt.
there is maybe a reason but i don't know why. this is very frustrative. the worst is when there are very expensive library using dongle licence and with no trial at all... that's why i have never bought the American D of Synthogy, which is one of my dream to have (i use Garritan CFX Lite). even during a sales, the price of the ilok key is the price of the discount. it's a b****s***.

what i can tell you anyway, is that the orange tree material is outstanding ! listen to the demo i did above on youtube. it's one of the hardest sound to get on guitar, and it's working amazing with one of orange tree library (i use an external FX plugin, not the FX included except for some specific stuff.).

the load time you report look good. but i did not know what CPU version you have.

sorry i forgot to give you this info. i have a i-7700 kabylake, with 16Gb of ram, and an Asrock H270 mini-ITX motherboard.

I have a sample tank 3 se. the piano is 500 mb in size and load around 10 sec.

i have it too, but never tried it (i own an iRig Keys 37 Pro.
it's depend how each plugin work.
for example, my garritan plugin under cubase take 21 seconds to load the 20 Gb piano library, but keep in mind that it's not loading all the 20 Gb but only a part of it as it's sample streaming !

thats only 50 Mb read speed. I have 840 evo too. do you know

a slow loading can come from different source and explanation. including the software/plugin itself. SSD + Kontakt well optimised give a very nice result.

for example, the second tune of my video demo above, called johnny swing, here is the template :

track 1 : Lead guitar Melody = Kontakt 5 + orange tree infinity + guitar FX plugin
track 2 : Lead Guitar Solo : (so a second kontakt 5 + same guitar) same plugin with different fx settings.
track 3 : kontakt 5 again + same guitar but for chords + guitar FX plugin
track 4 : same as track 3, with different sound for the FX
track 5 : same library , kontakt etc (lol) for playing specific bass notes on guitar.
track 6 : Pads from a synth library (it's the plugin who make the load the more longuer ).
track 7 : kontakt 5 (again) (not in a rack, each track load each time a new instance of kontakt) of orange Tree Cherry electric bass.
Track 8 : Superior Drummer using internal plugin Fx to superior drummer (Eq, limited etc...).

there is a steinberg reverb on the drums (roomworks reverb) and an EQ on track 7.

Load time of this project ? with 6 x kontakt 5 + one superior drummer + one synth plugin = around 20 seconds. system disk has cubase project and program. the M.2 has all the sound libraries.

if the load on a 840 evo is noticable slower as on your m2 ssd ?

i don't know. i can tell you that the MX300 (i have a MX500 as a third SSD) is a bit slower than a 850 EVO, but it's so Fast... compared at a normal HD.

I think the speed brake is the compression and maybe encryption. maybe newer CPU are with AVX2 or decryption instructions much faster,

i did not know, if kontakt have optimized code for new CPU instruction.

it's not an information i have sorry.

please tell what CPU you have.

i7-7700

in single core performance and cince bench or other, modern CPU are only around 50% faster than my CPU. Only in some encryption or decription tests or AVX2 they are more than 2* faster. benchmarks

if interested i can run a CPU cinebench 15 test and give you the result here.

[magicmusic]

if use the kontakt lib in several instances does not increase load time i think. how long does superior drummer load ?

If use clean or crunch sound in amp is no problem. i want use lead (soldano lead amp sound in Bias amp pro i use ). here is a mid file that sound with my record guitar with light vibrato always better but not so good as play real on guitar. https://freemidi.org/download-9711-stil ... gary-moore

track 3 od guitar at bar 51 only the solo part. in he audio mp3 it begin at 3 min 26. the mp3 use too a light vibrato that is always in. such a feature i wish for guitar libs too.

or maybe the orangetree hollow body sound better for this. ample sound or music lab have demos, but they have no hollow body guitar, so i did not know how this sound. maybe can do a demo song from got the blues solo with orangetree libs

[Martyprod]

if use the kontakt lib in several instances does not increase load time i think. how long does superior drummer load ?

With the kit i use : 7 seconds.

such a feature i wish for guitar libs too.

You absolutly CAN't Compare and use as an example a random Midifile "found" on internet, and using a Mp3 produced from the midilfe done by someone with a GM sound Bank who is certainly at 99.99% very very far from the best quality possible with any professionnal sound library like the orange tree one, .... it's nonsense !!

The guitars Gregjazz produce for his company Orange Tree sample are professionnally made and programmed and are used by professional. they are among the best available guitar sounds actually on the market ! (for me, they are the best), today i showed one of my tune featuring lead guitar and solo to a professional musician (pianiste) and teacher in a big music school in vienna, and he couldn't guess if the sound was fake or not !

A Midifile can sometimes sound very good with adapting the midifile with great sound, but it never worked good with any guitar sample library for a simple reason, a guitar use too many technique, which are not programmed or played in a midifile unless it has been done on the library you want to buy or use.

if you want the guitar track sounding good, you can't use a Midifile demo "found on internet" to "judge" the library. it's a nonsense. You must play and re record each guitar track once you'll have a guitar library. (don't know if you have any actually).

or maybe the orangetree hollow body sound better for this. ample sound or music lab have demos, but they have no hollow body guitar, so i did not know how this sound. maybe can do a demo song from got the blues solo with orangetree libs

[/quote]

It will sound bad because the midifile has been recorded on a keyboard and with a sound in mind which has nothing to do with how all the orange tree sample library are working. Beleive me, i'musing a lot actually Midifile for fun (professionnally made , that i bought 15 years ago at Tune1000) for Karaoké purpose (i'm training an amateur singer, actually). absolutly NONE of all the midifiles are tried are sounding good with a professionnally guitar programming like Orange tree. the track must be re-recorded to sound good and Great !

I could render in mp3 the midifile you provided but if i do this, as it would not be as good as what the library can really provide, it would be simply not "fair" and nice to orange tree sample.it would show a result not as good as what the library can do.

So, sorry, i'll not do that. if you want i can show other demos i did with my Orange tree libraries (i did some cover recently of all kind, like some from Police and other stuff), but i'll not do a render of an unknown midifile, recorded on whatever it was

i Just watched the midifile, there is no info about who did it (professional midifile company or amateur person) and all the guitar parts are quantized (inlcuding the solo) !... no way !

[magicmusic]

The most important problem of the guitar libraries or VSTi is that they have no vibrato.when paint vibrato in the pitch wheel area in the midi file it sound good. but this is lots work. If it is possible to set modulation to a fix small value and it sound good is also ok. but this sound not good and monoton. Do you see solo violin libraries ?. often this library are record with a small vibrato because violin sound without vibrato same ugly as a e- guitar with a lead distortion. but on every sample player even the bred and butter violin sound, sound good on long notes because they are record with a little vibrato.

in synthesizer sound engines there is often used a lfo this modulate pitch a little after a choosable delay. but in guitar libs there is no lfo and so not possible to add a nice random vibrato.

and wy can a guitar library not offer a auto vibrato feature that add on a note (when no other note is play so can be sure is solo) after 0.3 sec of note start a good sounding vibrato automatic. I see in orangetree videos every time when he play a longer note, he do shake the pich wheel to do the vibrato. wy can this not add automatic if modulation wheel is higheer as 0 ?. it is easy to remove all modulation messages in a midi file and use a fix modulation value.

[Martyprod]

The most important problem of the guitar libraries or VSTi is that they have no vibrato.

(..)

I see in orangetree videos every time when he play a longer note, he do shake the pich wheel to do the vibrato.

You're absolutly right, and i use the same technique than gregjazz (the guy behind orange tree and who did the video demos) to simulate this "vibrato". the Inifity guitar is better for this due to a different technic used in the library more suited for keyboard playing.
but on each of my solo and lead with Distorsion/overdrive, i have always my hand all the time on the modwheel for the "big vibrato" and the pitch bend that i move very little to re-create this "vibrato" you're talking about.

Why they don't do this in the guitar libraries in an automated way ? i don't know, best is to ask him or them. I'll ask him soon this question !