Why does my mixes sounds so "mudy"? (Examples insi

[Erki]

I watched Donnie Darko last night and decided to my make my own little version of one of the songs in the movie. But the sound in my songs always turn out so "mudy" (atleast to my ears). None of the instruments seem to have their own place in the mix, and it sounds like one big floor of sounds. I listen to the songs in the movie a couple of times and it all sounds so clean, every instrument have their own place in the mix, yet the bas is very heavy and theres alot of reverb without it drowning the other sounds. Hope i make sense.

It´s the same thing with everything i do (listen to the other two songs on the site), everything sounds like one big mushy floor of sounds no matter how i tweak the EQ, reverb and panning. And the bas is NEVER right. I know i still have ALOT to learn about making this kind of music, but i should still be able to get the mixes right no matter how the playing sounds though

Maybe it´s just my imagination (or my crappy speakers/headphones)? Or is it just my keyboard sKiLLZorZ that simply sucks?

Here´s the song, would really apreciate some advice on how to mix movie-ish music...
http://home.swipnet.se/emusic/Donnie%20Crackhead.mp3

The other two http://home.swipnet.se/emusic (just click and "save as" on the two links)

[Hunter]

well i thought your track was an enjoyable listen anyway what did you use?

i know nothing about mixing and mastering really, i am the king of mud myself. I hear the secret is in cunning use of EQ, plus of course careful use of the orioginal sounds, and the use of effects on those sounds. Don't forget the tunes you hear in movies have been professionaly produced by people who make a living from making music sound great...

oh yeah, what a great soundtrack donnie darko has eh?

jim

[Svante]

I don't think it's too bad, you should be pretty proud of yourself ... making this kind of music with a computer only is no easy task. That said, the horn and some of the string part sound kinda artificial, with the attack being the main problem. Maybe you should try randomizing the attack for less 'machine' sounding parts.

I think a big part of what muds up the mix is the fact that the instruments are not playing together, as they would in a real orchestra; the strings are not taking their place in the back because they were sampled solo.

One approach might be to try convolution verbs (SIR comes to mind) with impulses from different parts of big studio rooms, to place the instruments in the stereo field. Not sure what that will do to samples that already have a stereo image, though.

Swipnet 4-ever! (check me out at home.swipnet.se/funken)

[Robert Randolph]

In my travels of internet musicians... Ive found mud in most of these instances comes from one, or both of 2 things...

1. Bad instrumentation and arrangement (this includes trying to make EVERYTHING heard... some things need to be just felt)

2. Bad source of sounds.

[DevonB]

Well, it kinda helps that A) they most assuredly used a real orchestra, and didn't have to use a reverb and B) the guys doing the mix could possibly have more years mixing under their belt than you have years lived too.

BTW - your horns are a bit too up front.

Devon

[Erki]

Thanks for the comments. Yeah i know what you mean, i have big problems making the different instruments "play together". The attacks i controll with the modwheel, it´s the same with that i have alot of problems making smooth attacks (and realistic attacks). i guess i need to listen alot more to classical and movie music to get that stuff right.

Any comments on the bas? When i use my headphones it sounds atleast somewhat soft and deep, but when i use the speakers it sounds "punchy" and crappy (no matter how i tweak EQ and reverb). I do have crappy, and badly placed, speakers though so it´s a bit hard to mix on those

And yes, Donnie Darko had an awesome soundtrack!

Edit: Hunter, I used Garritan Personal Orchestra.

[Erki]

DevonB: Thanks, i know you have made some great movie score-ish stuff. You have that clean sound in your songs. Maybe i should download them again and learn something eh?

Aside from the horn and weird attacks, did it sound like shit?

[kl3in]

Erki,

Lovely, emotional music. Not completely convinced by the string multisamples though. Upgrade your library. Your skills deserve it.

About your mix:

First of all your leveling is a bit off. Put the instruments who cause boominess further back in the mix. If that's unacceptable you need to page an EQ surgeon. In this particular mix you need a reduction at about 75, 110, 160, 230 and 410 Hz. Generally be careful with what's going on between 100 and 200Hz. That's boomtown. You also need a boost in the higher frequencies to open things up a bit, but too much treble sounds cheap and kills attention to detail. It also sounds like you're using different reverbs on the various instruments, or there are different types of ambience in the samples themselves. I would be very careful with reverb on the individual instruments, but put the mix through the same ambience and/or reverb to glue them together.

Über-quick demo based on the above:
http://home.broadpark.no/~oisteine/donnierem.mp3

Hope this helps.

[DevonB]

DevonB: Thanks, i know you have made some great movie score-ish stuff. You have that clean sound in your songs. Maybe i should download them again and learn something eh?

Aside from the horn and weird attacks, did it sound like shit?

Eh, I need to put up better stuff, but if you want to listen again, feel free.

It sounded ok otherwise. GPO can take a bit to get a handle on to get the most milage out of it.

Devon

[chagzuki]

Its not that muddy really.
One of the cello patches sounds really odd and full of high frequency noise. What reverb did you use?
Oh, one thing about the garritan basses is that they don't have much bass and have loads of mids. I hated them so much I bought ewqlso silver, then found out how good gold sounds and upgraded to that.

[Erki]

kl3in: Thanks i´ll keep that i mind when tweaking the EQ. I think i need to get better speakers thoug, the ones i use now are from some cheap homesystem. Your version sounded alot clearer, the horn and the strings got their own own place in the mix somehow.

I´ll just send my stuff over to you when i´m done haha

"Oh, one thing about the garritan basses is that they don't have much bass and have loads of mids."/chagzuki

Yeah i noticed it sounded very hollow when i put it trough my speakers, while it sounded alot more softer on my headphones. I´ve been looking at the silver, and it is very affordable but i think i need to atleast try to get my head around GPO first though.


All the sounds goes trough one channel in the mixer and i just slapped a simple "concert hall" reverb over it. So every instrument uses the same reverb.

I did tweak the master output EQ a bit (just raised the low end and the treble 3-4db, did´nt take any freqs into consideration). So yeah i need to learn more about that stuff obviously.

And yes, GPO is very hard to play! I need to work my modwheel skills a bit more i think.

[scandipandy]

Besides some EQ you can try to do multiband compression to make the sound more clear and defined.

an example using multibandcompresion:

DonnieCrackhead_mbc.mp3

[koorby]

Erki, I really loved your August Comp entry "Fly", and I sent you a PM to that effect about a week ago. I am downloading all 3 tracks now (on dial-up, sorry) and I'll post a comment once I've had a chance to hear them properly. I'm hoping this version of Fly is a little longer than the 2:00 imposed by the comp.

[Erki]

Koorby; Thanks. "Fly" is the same version as the contest entry though so don´t bother downloading it! I´ll try to finish the longer version, and i´ll PM you if it ever gets done as i mentioned in the PM.

scandipandy; Thanks, your versione had alot more high end and the strings sounded alot more up front (although a bit too much to my ears) wich was nice! I´ll try messing around with some compression/limiter.

[kl3in]

Besides some EQ you can try to do multiband compression to make the sound more clear and defined.

an example using multibandcompresion:

DonnieCrackhead_mbc.mp3

I'd be careful using multiband compression on classical/orchestral oriented music.