Church Organ Arrangements/Compositions

[mediumaevum]

I've composed these pieces for church organ.
I struggled a bit with the arrangements/harmony, but I'd like to know if it works.

https://soundcloud.com/mediumaevum-arti ... rgan-music

[ChameleonMusic]

Pleasant listen, good job overall...There's nothing wrong with them as such, but they do reveal a lack of knowledge regarding more formal harmony in this context as well as the use of the draw-bars / stops / manuals etc.

These sort of formal church organ pieces would usually be composed melodically rather than harmonically - 2, 3 or 4 different melodies weaving around each other and creating underlying harmonies as they chop and change.

[StudioDave]

Indeed, nothing wrong with what you've done, but I'd suggest checking out a few dozen Bach chorales - they're short - for some interesting ideas about harmonization and counterpoint.

Best regards,

dp

[rp314]

[bftucker]

An organist with DSI Evolver and Prophet ‘08 synthesizers...

https://youtu.be/EdcmgF6SMvM

He has over 100 improvisations.

[In The Mix]

If your goal was to compose or arrange for a standard mixed/SATB choir, you got the point across just fine. I also agree with the suggestion of studying Bach Chorales for this purpose. You're on the right track....that is if your goal was to write hymns.

For a solo Organ piece? They won't work very well for ears familiar with that type of music. Because again, they sound as if you're playing a choir part with an Organ sound....or you're accompanying a congregation with vocals being the most important part. I guess what I'm trying to say is, they're not convincing enough to be considered as standalone instrumental pieces written for Organ.

[mediumaevum]

My goal was to compose hymns and underlying SATB-arrangement as simple as possible.

If I understand the critique correctly, you're suggesting I should write more in the style of Bach?

These are meant to be simple hymns for a congregation to sing in a protestant church in the mid-16th century.

They are not supposed to be baroque compositions.

[ChameleonMusic]

My goal was to compose hymns and underlying SATB-arrangement as simple as possible.

If I understand the critique correctly, you're suggesting I should write more in the style of Bach?

These are meant to be simple hymns for a congregation to sing in a protestant church in the mid-16th century.

They are not supposed to be baroque compositions.

Renaissance Lutheran hymns, Baroque 4 part Chorales...whatever...the point I think he was making is that you could learn a lot from studying Bach Chorales....a lot regarding formal 4 part harmony, counterpoint and general arrangement for SATB and / or organ.

I have listened to and given feedback on a lot of your pieces (some with my old KVR identity) and the truth is for me that you are often trying to run before you can walk...and I mean that in a supportive way and NOT to demean your music at all...if I didn't think it had potential, i wouldn't even bother to comment!

I've composed professionally for over 25 years and taught / lectured in Music and Music Technology up to University level for 32(specialism = composition)...I don't always get it completely right by a long way in my own pieces, but when it comes to both Renaissance and Baroque compositional techniques I do know my shit!

Your pieces are generally enjoyable listens and are always in the right 'ballpark' as you clearly have some skill and understanding, but...

Composing in the styles that you often choose is heavyweight stuff that requires more in depth traditional musical knowledge than other areas of composition such as pop, rock and club dance (they have their own complexities - often found in other directions).

I don't see any evidence that you yet have sufficient knowledge in that area at the moment and seriously recommend that you remedy that situation if you want your comps to develop further...there are no actual rules here that I'm suggesting you follow, that's NOT the way music theory works when it's used properly, but it will open up a new world of possibilities.

You have ability and clearly work at it, but I think you are shooting in the dark at the moment to some extent and also creating music in a comfort zone of certain harmonies and melodic ideas that you have already worked out.

You are doing pretty well with your pieces, but they lack the subtlety and nuance required for me to really appreciate them and could be so much better.

OK - that all probably sounds seriously patronising and arrogant...it's NOT meant that way at all, it's just simply meant to give you a few suggestions for the future...composing in the styles you have chosen requires a lot of study if it is to be done with rigour and attention to detail.

The first piece above here:

Yeah, it's alright - it's generally in that Lutheran hymn style you mention, but without going into huge analysis...basically it's all a bit 'clunky' in its flow from bar to bar and simply lacks some of the subtleties and attention to detail needed to sound really convincing.

[In The Mix]

My goal was to compose hymns and underlying SATB-arrangement as simple as possible.
......

That wasn't the description you posted though. You wrote: "I've composed these pieces for church organ."

I don't know about everybody else, but if you read my feedback again, you'll see a 2 part feedback.

[mediumaevum]

My goal was to compose hymns and underlying SATB-arrangement as simple as possible.

If I understand the critique correctly, you're suggesting I should write more in the style of Bach?

These are meant to be simple hymns for a congregation to sing in a protestant church in the mid-16th century.

They are not supposed to be baroque compositions.

Renaissance Lutheran hymns, Baroque 4 part Chorales...whatever...the point I think he was making is that you could learn a lot from studying Bach Chorales....a lot regarding formal 4 part harmony, counterpoint and general arrangement for SATB and / or organ.

I have listened to and given feedback on a lot of your pieces (some with my old KVR identity) and the truth is for me that you are often trying to run before you can walk...and I mean that in a supportive way and NOT to demean your music at all...if I didn't think it had potential, i wouldn't even bother to comment!

I've composed professionally for over 25 years and taught / lectured in Music and Music Technology up to University level for 32(specialism = composition)...I don't always get it completely right by a long way in my own pieces, but when it comes to both Renaissance and Baroque compositional techniques I do know my shit!

Your pieces are generally enjoyable listens and are always in the right 'ballpark' as you clearly have some skill and understanding, but...

Composing in the styles that you often choose is heavyweight stuff that requires more in depth traditional musical knowledge than other areas of composition such as pop, rock and club dance (they have their own complexities - often found in other directions).

I don't see any evidence that you yet have sufficient knowledge in that area at the moment and seriously recommend that you remedy that situation if you want your comps to develop further...there are no actual rules here that I'm suggesting you follow, that's NOT the way music theory works when it's used properly, but it will open up a new world of possibilities.

You have ability and clearly work at it, but I think you are shooting in the dark at the moment to some extent and also creating music in a comfort zone of certain harmonies and melodic ideas that you have already worked out.

You are doing pretty well with your pieces, but they lack the subtlety and nuance required for me to really appreciate them and could be so much better.

OK - that all probably sounds seriously patronising and arrogant...it's NOT meant that way at all, it's just simply meant to give you a few suggestions for the future...composing in the styles you have chosen requires a lot of study if it is to be done with rigour and attention to detail.

The first piece above here:

Yeah, it's alright - it's generally in that Lutheran hymn style you mention, but without going into huge analysis...basically it's all a bit 'clunky' in its flow from bar to bar and simply lacks some of the subtleties and attention to detail needed to sound really convincing.

Thank you so much for your feedback - I appreciate it a lot, every comment you've posted to my pieces, and I certainly do not find it "arrogant" - at all.

I do lack the knowledge of composing. I have no education. Perhaps some tutorials you can recommend?

[ChameleonMusic]

My goal was to compose hymns and underlying SATB-arrangement as simple as possible.

If I understand the critique correctly, you're suggesting I should write more in the style of Bach?

These are meant to be simple hymns for a congregation to sing in a protestant church in the mid-16th century.

They are not supposed to be baroque compositions.

Renaissance Lutheran hymns, Baroque 4 part Chorales...whatever...the point I think he was making is that you could learn a lot from studying Bach Chorales....a lot regarding formal 4 part harmony, counterpoint and general arrangement for SATB and / or organ.

I have listened to and given feedback on a lot of your pieces (some with my old KVR identity) and the truth is for me that you are often trying to run before you can walk...and I mean that in a supportive way and NOT to demean your music at all...if I didn't think it had potential, i wouldn't even bother to comment!

I've composed professionally for over 25 years and taught / lectured in Music and Music Technology up to University level for 32(specialism = composition)...I don't always get it completely right by a long way in my own pieces, but when it comes to both Renaissance and Baroque compositional techniques I do know my shit!

Your pieces are generally enjoyable listens and are always in the right 'ballpark' as you clearly have some skill and understanding, but...

Composing in the styles that you often choose is heavyweight stuff that requires more in depth traditional musical knowledge than other areas of composition such as pop, rock and club dance (they have their own complexities - often found in other directions).

I don't see any evidence that you yet have sufficient knowledge in that area at the moment and seriously recommend that you remedy that situation if you want your comps to develop further...there are no actual rules here that I'm suggesting you follow, that's NOT the way music theory works when it's used properly, but it will open up a new world of possibilities.

You have ability and clearly work at it, but I think you are shooting in the dark at the moment to some extent and also creating music in a comfort zone of certain harmonies and melodic ideas that you have already worked out.

You are doing pretty well with your pieces, but they lack the subtlety and nuance required for me to really appreciate them and could be so much better.

OK - that all probably sounds seriously patronising and arrogant...it's NOT meant that way at all, it's just simply meant to give you a few suggestions for the future...composing in the styles you have chosen requires a lot of study if it is to be done with rigour and attention to detail.

The first piece above here:

Yeah, it's alright - it's generally in that Lutheran hymn style you mention, but without going into huge analysis...basically it's all a bit 'clunky' in its flow from bar to bar and simply lacks some of the subtleties and attention to detail needed to sound really convincing.

Thank you so much for your feedback - I appreciate it a lot, every comment you've posted to my pieces, and I certainly do not find it "arrogant" - at all.

I do lack the knowledge of composing. I have no education. Perhaps some tutorials you can recommend?

And the fact that you have no 'music education' as such shows how much music theory you've managed to absorb on your own and practically apply to your pieces in a positive way.

I can't really recommend any courses for two reasons:

I don't know you well enough, especially the exact level of your knowledge in various areas.

I really don't have any insight into how you would learn - what would be the best approach for you personally.

There are loads of possibilities out there (many for free / very cheap)...try one or two that grab you for a short period and see how they go...don't like 'em...try another.

If it's of help with this particular project...feel free to send me the first piece above as a Standard MIDI File (just save it as MIDI Type 1) and I'll provide some insight into how I might've gone about it...

Won't be necessarily better or worse than yours or anything...just different...might just give you an example of other possible approaches and how they work.

chameleonmusic@outlook.com

[mediumaevum]

Thank you, chameleonmusic - that is indeed a very, very generous offer!
May I send you a PM instead?

[ChameleonMusic]

Of course.