Choral Work, "Ave Maria" (trad. arrangement)

[mediumaevum]

https://soundcloud.com/mediumaevum-artist/choralwork

I've composed a choral work for 4 voices.

The lyrics are:

Ave Maria
Alleluia
Regina Cæli
Gloria.

Let me know what you think.

[mediumaevum]

Another choir - with better audio:

[deleted]

[ChameleonMusic]

Ava Maria - generally works well, especially up to 60 secs.

Loved the simple pedal note underneath it all up to that point - adds an edge of tension and dissonance to the simple harmonies above.

At 60 seconds, the issue for me is that it feels like the perfect moment to move onto something 'different' harmonically with a now moving bassline rather than the pedal note....the pedal note does disappear, but the parts don't move to somewhere 'new' as such...they just basically repeat the same ideas (admittedly with some extra complexity).

Crucifixus: It works, but would probably benefit from a little bit of what is known as contrary motion - individual parts sometimes moving in different directions...

When one rises, the other one falls etc...tends to help the overall balance of the texture.

[shawshawraw]

Cool ones!

I'd like your Ave Maria to have some suspensions on 'chord' and lyrics. The melodic motive is quite strong on resolution for me personally.

Crucifixus is a bit dull, although it's OK with the mood behind the lyrics. Also you may need super strong bass singers to hold that low F with power in real world...

[ChameleonMusic]

Cool ones!

I'd like your Ave Maria to have some suspensions on 'chord' and lyrics. The melodic motive is quite strong on resolution for me personally.

Crucifixus is a bit dull, although it's OK with the mood behind the lyrics. Also you may need super strong bass singers to hold that low F with power in real world...

Yeah, a string of suspensions could actually work well here. Linked to that - your melodic content is often strong, but always remember that a repeated melody does NOT have to have the same underlying harmonies each time....the same /similar melodic phrase, but with subtly or dramatically different harmonic support can be very powerful.

I do slightly disagree with the challenge of a sustained, forte, low F... Not that easy, but for experienced singers, there are various ways of successfully dealing with this and it's not that unusual... Although there will be a certain compromise in terms of note quality!

E is the official lowest note of the bass range, but many big choral pieces go down as far as C# / C... One even has a low Bb!!!

Russian orthodox choirs have powerful bass parts one full octave lower than the normal E... Extraordinary sound - went to a concert in a local church a few years ago and was astounded by the sound they created.

[tomtom1]

Not that easy, but for experienced singers, there are various ways of successfully dealing with this and it's not that unusual... Although there will be a certain compromise in terms of note quality!

that's what "choral breathing" is for. some singers let the tone fade away and start again, while the others hold out. If the choir is big and good enough, it works. But in fact, the same, repeated notes in the choir wear out very quickly - you always have to be very careful as a conductor.

E is the official lowest note of the bass range, but many big choral pieces go down as far as C# / C... One even has a low Bb!!!

For the very low tones, there is still the possibility of combination tones in an emergency to approximate it. experienced singers sing the fifth to the keynote. in the hearing it adds to the tone an octave lower - can work, but it depends on the harmonic context. but it is always better to have deep basses.

[ChameleonMusic]

that's what "choral breathing" is for. some singers let the tone fade away and start again, while the others hold out.

Had a bit of that technique bludgeoned into us when we sang Bruckner's Te Deum many years ago now...

Don't remember a lot anymore, but I do still have recollections of one section where the basses sang along on low F and F# before sustaining a low G for a 4 full bars....all at ppp! (worse than ff down there in some ways). It carried on for another phrase or two with a gentle crescendo and the suddenly jumped up an 8ve + 4th to fff repeated C for 4 bars or so! i don't think I ever hit that first high C properly!

[mediumaevum]

Thank you everyone.
Nice to get some new ideas. I have deleted the second piece though, as I wasn't satisfied with it.

The first one also needs more work.

I wish I could master the dissonances, there are some pretty cool choral works of Gjeilo, Whitacre etc. and I wish I could become as great a composer as, say Gjeilo. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I don't have those skills.

[tomtom1]

i don't think I ever hit that first high C properly!

dont' worry. there are always two rules, which i say everytime to my singers:
1. the orchestra will always be a bit too loud (if you have non-professionals singer, it's true in 99% of the cases)
2. nobody will recognize it.

the orchestra is carrying the mistakes away... always... you will only hear the real quality of a choir when they sing acapella.

and I wish I could become as great a composer as, say Gjeilo. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I don't have those skills.

don't be too disappointed. most of my collegues say that Gjeilo is way too overrated. i once wished i would be as great as Aphex Twin... okay, it didn't happen, and i became just a classical musician.
you will have your area where you will shine.

raise and shine mr. freeman (half-life 2 quote, awesome videogame)

[ChameleonMusic]

I wish I could master the dissonances

My only suggestion here is: focus a little bit more on writing melodically (horizontally) rather than harmonically (vertically). Gjeilo and Whitacre - they very much write that way primarily...trying to create various melodies that 'fit together' but are still well shaped on their own.

Start with a short simple little melodic motif that 'grabs' you...

Extend it / develop it...get it to rise and fall in different ways and at different times, but always in a way that you're satisfied with...can take time.

Experiment with a basic harmonic support that works with the motif, but weave that into the piece via new melodic parts that are based on the same shapes and patterns...sometimes playing at the same time...sometimes weaving around each other.

Of course you'll need to make sure that your knowledge of basic chords / extended chords etc is pretty secure first of all.

I wish I could become as great a composer as, say Gjeilo.

Hell, me too! But ...he took a long time to get there and is still learning...as is EW! Remember, they both completed 3 year undergraduate degrees specializing in music composition!

Don't try and rush it...you create some interesting pieces already...as you increase your knowledge and experience of all this you will expand the range of possibilities available to you!

NOTE: TRUTH...I don't actually like Gjeilo's output that much - one or two great moments, but a lot of mediocre stuff to my ear?

[mediumaevum]

Are these choral compositions better?

https://soundcloud.com/mediumaevum-arti ... la-version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHPv3arzneo