Speedbumpy Surface for better play by feel - samples ready

[TigerBalm]

I really enjoy my LinnStrument and I’m interested in finding ways to make it easier to play by feel, like a piano. We do have gaps between the pads, but when my fingertip is centered on a pad it can't feel the gaps.

So I made a rubber surface with speedbump shaped rows, 8 bumps total. The speedbump shape allows you to feel the y-center of each row. For example, it’s easier to keep a pitch slide on track by riding the crest. Also when playing a double stop (one finger on two rows) you get the affirmative feeling of touching two crests. The speedbumps don't help you feel your X position, but at least you can focus more brainpower on X position when Y position is easier.

I think it works great for me. Maybe it even helps with two handed playing, because the hand I'm not looking at can "autopilot" for longer. I would love to know what you all think though.

After lots of trial and error I've worked out a way to make surfaces using liquid rubber (Smooth-On Mold Star 30) and laser 3d printed molds from JLCPCB. Here's a video of the process with some LinnStrument playing too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6gLo2d41Sc

I put these speedbumpy surfaces up for sale on Reverb if you want to try one. I have two sizes: 128 and 200. The money helps pay for the process of making them.

https://reverb.com/shop/christophers-gear-depot-389

The sheet only covers the playing area of LinnStrument and it fits into the metal frame of your top plate. Let's call this v0. The v0 bumps are 1.25mm tall by default but I also put 0.75mm bumps on 8 columns for both sizes. I wasn't sure what flavor people would prefer. You can spin the sheet around to try both hands.

I recommend this for people who want to experiment. The parts are handmade so there are small defects, but overall quite good. It's pretty safe to use because it sits on top of the factory surface. My disclaimers are:

• Don't leave the sheet on top of your LinnStrument for extended periods. It might squeeze out silicone oils which could damage your low friction coating. I've had mine for a week so far with no issues though.

• The double stack rubber isn't ideal for all playing. It's less responsive and can slip if you press hard while pitch sliding

• These surfaces don’t have the low friction coating of the factory surfaces

PS wldmr started this conversation in 2020 with this topic viewtopic.php?t=550429 .. In that thread Roger generously shared 3D models for the LinnStrument surfaces. Thank you for doing that!

I'd love to know what you think. Any ideas for ways to make LinnStrument easier to play by feel? It doesn't cost much to order new molds.

[wakyct]

Super cool! I will refrain from reposting this on another forum that has a big Linnstrument thread, but I'll leave the link here for you in case you want to show them your design, https://llllllll.co/t/what-are-you-doin ... ument/5845 -- I should mention though that forum discourages open trading in all the 'non-trade' subforums, so you'll probably have to just link your original post here.

[TigerBalm]

Thanks wakyct, I shared this on lines .

[Roger_Linn]

Thanks Tigerbalm, for doing this. I look forward to seeing the comments after people have tried it out. Anything that could result in a better LinnStrument is something I welcome. If people overwhelmingly like it, it might be worth changing LinnStrument's playing surface.

That said, it would have to be overwhelmingly popular because for the large LinnStrument, it would cost me about $11,000 for the new mold and the minimum 240 piece order from my vendor. For the 128, it would cost me about $6500 for the new mold and minimum 180 piece order. If I modify the existing molds, it would cost me less but then I could no longer offer the flat surfaces.

[theows]

Looking at the other forum, seems that you must have gotten 2 orders at around the same time
I am very excited to try this out.

Some random thoughts. I hope Roger would say so if something has been evaluated before.
- I was thinking of embossed vertical ridges or dots on the horizontal middle of all the pads (like the Seaboard 2), then either with or without the pad separations. It might be great for speedier playing while helping with identifying the middle of the note (I am thinking x-axis quantization off here).
- The slipping while pressing hard on pitch bends I would need to test. I have a similar experience with the sensel morph. This will be very subjective but would merit evaluating if extending the mold to the whole surface under the metal frame for better stability should be considered.
- Is the decreased sensitivity related to the fact that the mold sits on top of the original playing surface? I guess so, but this is also something to be tried out and lead to the same consideration as the previous point.
- I think the original playing surface should remain the standard It has a whole lot of other advantages.

In any case, I would personally be willing to pay up to double the cost Roger has indicated for an additional, industrial made playing surface, should that still be feasible from the commercial standpoint considering the additional costs. Great if you give it some time for user feedback.
At a later point, I think a crowdfunding campaign would lend itself to see if it is worth pursuing.

Anyone in Berlin, Germany, willing to try please PM me. Happy to share once it has arrived.

[Roger_Linn]

Hi theos,

In the early days of development, I tried a few different ideas including a fret-like bar in the center of the rows, different note pad sizes, convex and concave shapes, and different softnesses, and asked musician friends to try them out. The consensus was that the flat-top pads worked best, but that was likely influenced in part by test musicians who were comfortable with flat-top drum pads on my MPC products. Also, manufacturing limitations and the need for the material to be translucent in order for the light to pass through were factors. For example, a raised center line doesn't work so well if you need light to pass through it. Also, a problem with shapes other than flat-top pads is that they seemed to interfere with Y-axis control and finger drumming.

TigerBalm-- if it turns out that a smaller number of people like the speed bump idea but value it enough to pay more, one option would be to make and sell them yourself in higher quantities and at a higher price, and I'd be happy put a notice on my site pointing people to you. You might even find a company that could do the fabrication for you at a reasonable cost. I'm happy to help you with everything I know about the process. There is a prototyping company in Sunnyvale that I used to make early prototypes, which created an acrylic mold and used a vacuum cold-curing process. The prototype sheets they made were expensive but in higher quantities might be affordable.

[John the Savage]

In the early days of development, I tried a few different ideas including a fret-like bar in the center of the rows, different note pad sizes, convex and concave shapes, and different softnesses, and asked musician friends to try them out. The consensus was that the flat-top pads worked best.

This process has been fun to watch, and I applaud the effort. However, I do think the playing surface that you arrived at, Roger, is still optimal for most proficient players. I, personally, would not benefit from the above design; though I can see how some players might.

Again, bravo for taking innovation into your own hands, TigerBalm... Looks good.

Cheers!

[wldmr]

Oh wow, this is very exciting! Immediately ordered one. They come much cheaper than I had anticipated. I get the impression I'll almost be paying more in tax and import duties than the sheet itself. Greetings from Fortress Europe!

As of right now, you seem to be out of sheets for the 128, so I ordered the 200 (which is my main Linnstrument anyway, so that works out nicely). Looking forward to playing with this and giving feedback.

[TigerBalm]

7 orders so far! How exciting. Thanks to everyone for your interest. I only have 3 left to sell for now because I'm traveling most of May. Next batch will be June.

Made some edits below to organize my thoughts.

wldmr glad you ordered one! You're the OG sight reading asker. OK let's get these sheets into fortress Europe. It was fun going back over that thread. I feel the same as Reckon104 that the Y axis is maybe the hardest part of two hand play.

John thanks for the kudos. Hopefully we can get you a speedbump sheet at some point. It sounds like you're very familiar with LinnStrument.

Roger thanks for all the ideas about manufacture. I would love to work something out if the concept is valid. I would lean more towards working with your existing vendors and process even if it means more risk, but I haven't done any math yet.

Theows, to answer your questions:

- I'm hesitant to put embossed features to help us feel X-center (at my office we would call it "proud" when something is taller than the surroundings). I fear that even a small proud feature would interfere with pitch slides. I have an idea for a compromise option to share soon, but I need to make a picture first.

- The slipping will be fixed when we go to a full sheet that fits under the top plate. I'm not so familiar with this mold star silicone yet and I don't want to risk people's LinnStruments, so, I opted to go on top of the factory surface. That also made the mold cheaper. Long term we can go to a full sheet though.

- The full sheet also fixes the responsiveness problem. The loss of responsiveness is mostly due to the double stack thickness. The speedbump sheet will not be much thicker than the original sheet. About 3.25mm vs 2.5mm, respectively. (I might have the numbers slightly off)

Here's the factory:

[John the Savage]

John thanks for the kudos. Hopefully we can get you a speedbump sheet at some point. It sounds like you're very familiar with LinnStrument.

I'll try just about anything once.

In all seriousness though, I do a lot of beta-testing, road-testing, and product U.I. consulting, for boutique and mainstream gear manufacturers alike; so, if you think my feedback would actually be of benefit, I'd be happy to give it a go. To that end, however, it seems you've already found a paying clientele, and that's a windfall for any new venture. Definitely work with those supporters first.

I've had the privilege of trying each new formulation of the LinnStrument's playing surface, as it has developed; so, if this were to evolve into a legitimate LinnStrument accessory, I dare say, I'd be obligated to try it. I'm never too proud to stand corrected.

Cheers!

[digimidi]

I had not been paying attention to this thread but just ordered one for my 200. Looking forward to checking this out.

[mrspiral]

I don't see a Reverb listing for the 128 version, if there is one?

[TigerBalm]

I just sent out 8 surfaces! Thanks to everyone who ordered. May the customs gods smile upon us.



Sorry MrSpiral, I only put up five of each size for sale and the 128s sold out. I'm leaving for a two week trip on Saturday morning (brother's wedding) so I didn't want to over commit. Actually I took down the listing for the two remaining 200 surfaces, no time to do the shipping stuff before I leave.

I'll be back in June though and can make more, maybe we'll do a v1 based on the feedback?

[Dirk Diggler]

Wow I really applaud your follow though on the project.
Continued good luck to your experiments!

[digimidi]

I received my 200 today and my first impressions are that it is easier on my fingertips to play with the softer surface. Velocity also seems to be a little more consistent. No issues sliding between notes. And I use the Y axis quite a bit and the slight hump makes it easy to know how much range you will have depending on where you strike (I have reletive on and set to 0). My only real complaint is the color as it makes most of the LED colors close to the same (blues, greens, yellows) or disappear totally (red, pink). If it could be made with a clear or white pigment to let the colors through, this would be a great addition for anyone. I would definitely order one for my 128. I hope this is a possibility. Thanks Tiger Balm for a great accessory for the Linnstrument.

Gil