Linnstrument vs Push 3 (and what it means)

[Carlbark]

So, push 3 just got announced and with that a lot of MPE improvements in ableton live.
I currently own the linnstrument 128 and plan to connect it to the push 3 standalone to get a wider range. But when I saw that push 3 supports pitch slides in scale mode (something I really miss in the linnstrument) I am afraid I will use the linnstrument less and less.

Thoughts?

[pone]

I believe some time ago here Roger said Linnstrument doesn't have the scale mode of the Push because it's not required as there are enough keys to not require this feature/limitation unlike the Push.

I agree with that.

[Roger_Linn]

I believe some time ago here Roger said Linnstrument doesn't have the scale mode of the Push because it's not required as there are enough keys to not require this feature/limitation unlike the Push.

It’s on the LinnStrument FAQ page, General tab, first FAQ:

https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/support ... ument-faqs

[wakyct]

I appreciate the design of the new Push, but I've never used Ableton or similar DAWs and don't really plan to. So I guess my thoughts are there is no 'vs.' I'm thinking about.

[BobDog]

I wonder how pitchbend on the push works in scale mode because it won’t be “linear”?

[Badpunrecords]

Yeah for me much prefer playing in chromatic mode, allows for much more control & makes much more musical sense.
The only reason I like having the option of just scale mode is for showcasing to people with basically no musical background. Allowing them to essentially jam with you by building their confidence that they can't play an accidental 'wrong' note.

Didn't realize someone had made a custom user mode, will definitely check that out though!

[FranklyFlawless]

I wonder how pitchbend on the push works in scale mode because it won’t be “linear”?

If it is what the FAQ describes, intervals larger than a semitone are adapted by increasing the pitch bend, similar to the "Mech" layout.

[Fannon]

I wonder how pitchbend on the push works in scale mode because it won’t be “linear”?

If it is what the FAQ describes, intervals larger than a semitone are adapted by increasing the pitch bend, similar to the "Mech" layout.

So the pitch bend would be non-linear and change the speed depending if there's a half-step or full-step in between the pads?

[Fannon]

In any case, Ableton going into MPE is good news. I can imagine that in the future also Novation and Arturia might come up with some MPE controllers now that Ableton Live has dedicated support for it.

When thinking about the Push 3 - for me at least its too big in size. I like the size and "simplicity" of the LinnStrument (128) by being foremost an instrument, not so much a controller. But I do wonder how the experience of playing the Push 3 pads compares the the LinnStrument pads.

[FranklyFlawless]

So the pitch bend would be non-linear and change the speed depending if there's a half-step or full-step in between the pads?

Yes. Check out the Ableton Push Manual, specifically "7.2 Playing Expressive Melodies and Harmonies":

When using the In Key scale option, the pitch bend will always be in key. When using the Chromatic scale option, the pitch bend will be in half steps.

[LarsDaniel]

I think with Push 3 we will start seeing a lot more people playing music using an mpe-grid. This will expose even more people to the concept and to some extent help “normalise” using somthing like a linnstrument.

To put such exposure in context:
When I three years ago got curious about mpe controllers, as a pianist I just scrolled past linnstrument as something that was just too weird. I went for a seabord - something I could get my head around, only to find that it did not spark any joy to play. Researching a second round, brought me to try out a linnstrument, and that was it for me.

Obviously Push 3 does not have the playability that linnstrument has, due to the pads being too big, but I think it is bound to open some doors for future linnstrument players.

(Also I find it very interesting, that Ableton has developed their own sensor tech that seem to cover the same ground as linnstrument.)

[SLiC]

Obviously Push 3 does not have the playability that linnstrument has, due to the pads being too big, but I think it is bound to open some doors for future linnstrument players.

Some are saying it's actually more playable as the pads are bigger, more room to slide up and down on the individual pad adding even more expression...slide up and down was always good on something like a seaboard but hast worked so well on small pad based so although it has less pads, it may be 'more' playable and possibly more expressive....I am sure we will get some real user feedback soon.

[SLiC]

Take a look at around 9 minutes- lots of range their...

https://youtu.be/Nw1edFfDCvE

[LarsDaniel]

Obviously Push 3 does not have the playability that linnstrument has, due to the pads being too big, but I think it is bound to open some doors for future linnstrument players.

Some are saying it's actually more playable as the pads are bigger, more room to slide up and down on the individual pad adding even more expression...slide up and down was always good on something like a seaboard but hast worked so well on small pad based so although it has less pads, it may be 'more' playable and possibly more expressive....I am sure we will get some real user feedback soon.

You are right, that was completely written from my point of view. Off course it depends on what a person regards as playability. I have never really used the y-axis as it mostly just gets in the way for my style of playing. Playable for me is to be able to play melodicly (using one hand only) with great agilty and (if needed) speed. And for that, the pad dimensions of the linnstrument are very good (which is certainly no coincidence.)
The pad size of controllers like Push 3 comes from a completely different chain of thought: Finger drumming. I think it is safe to say that Ableton has never given it a thought, how well you can play a one handed scale on those pads. They have a large customer group that are used to a certain pad size, and that works for them. And yes, it probably turns out, that in some ways the bigger pads will be good for certain things (y-axis expression) or people with huge hands. Also two handed chords/arpeggios will be fine - we see people play them kind of like one uses a text-keyboard with two fingers: You do not rely on muscle memory, but you play a note after visually identifying it.

[FranklyFlawless]

Obviously Push 3 does not have the playability that linnstrument has, due to the pads being too big, but I think it is bound to open some doors for future linnstrument players.

Some are saying it's actually more playable as the pads are bigger, more room to slide up and down on the individual pad adding even more expression...slide up and down was always good on something like a seaboard but hast worked so well on small pad based so although it has less pads, it may be 'more' playable and possibly more expressive....I am sure we will get some real user feedback soon.

Reminds me a lot about the Polyend Medusa. I think the issue here is that the Ableton Push 3 and LinnStrument (128) target different audiences. One is directed towards DAW integration and general-purpose expression, and the other is more focused on fine instrumental performance. While the Ableton Push 3 is a great introduction into isomorphic layouts, playing two hands independently will be a significant challenge due to its 3 1/2 octaves note range. Chords will also have to be simpler, like triads, due to the larger note spacing.