What base functionality still is missing in Bitwig 5

[pdxindy]

Nobody has a constitutional right to come into a forum I create and pay for and say anything they want. If they don't like my forum, they can go make their own forum. That's what their rights protect, not that they can come into mine, scream in my face and I have to let them.

Actually they do ...as long as they don´t violate any rules and initially matched the criteria to get in... this is what free speech means!

I can kick you out of my forum any time I want. I don't even need a reason. Just like I can kick you out of my house anytime without a reason.

Something like Facebook has become like the public commons and so the discussion gets more complex.

[muzicxs]

But even if I renew my plan when the next update hits... 179,-€ is a bit steep for a point update so I pay the major part of the money again in blind trust...

Of course one can wait updating until he think´s it´s justified but then you have to do all the time without eventually crucial points you begged for all the time but on their own aren´t really worth 179,-€...

Anyway... this plan method is not very user friendly and is nothing as a money melking machine.

You have to do quite some mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that it's money milking, but whatever.

Everyone with half a brain can understand that there are two ways to deal with Bitwig's upgrade plan:
- You upgrade whenever you see the features you like AND you'll get 12 months of updates for FREE.
- You want to keep up-to-date and pay exactly for that service. You can use every single update straight away as you paid for that.

Complaining that you want to use every features that comes out, but don't want to pay for that and you also want to know upfront what they're going to deliver a year from now is just ludicrous.

Fact: Waiting a few versions is more friendly for your wallet compared to the competition.

The longer I postpone upgrading to Cubase 12, the more I'll have to pay. In a while it'll be like I never purchased Cubase to begin with... In that sense, Bitwig's upgrade plan is extremely user friendly as it's a fixed price for whatever version you are coming from.

Make one of the following choices:
- Update whenever you see enough features, upgrade AND you'll get 12 months of updates for free!
- Keep an active upgrade plan, allowing you to use EVERY single feature that comes out in 12 months from the activation date, but you have no idea what those features are going to be. If you don't like this option, pick the first one.

There's nothing different compared to the competition if you choose option one, yet:
- They won't charge you for the next updates they roll out within the next 12 months. Isn't that awesome! The competition generally has a 1 month grace period where you can get the new upgrade for free, meaning that you are so out of luck if you purchased the upgrade 1 month and a day ago. You would literally need to purchase another update. How this beats Bitwig's upgrade plan is beyond me.
- You can wait as long as you want and update for a fixed price. More versions skipped means more bang for the buck.

If those are not user friendly, then your definition of user friendly is off the hook. Oh and btw, you can pay as little as €129,- for an upgrade plan if you wait for the half yearly offers. I once catched one for only €89,- via a third party.

If price is everything you look at, then Reaper might be a better fit for you. For $60, you'll get a discounted license that gets you 2 versions of updates! I assume that you don't make more than $20k in revenue from music

[pdxindy]

But what you want to say at the very end is that you want to have a place where you decide what may be said and what not... this is the essence of facism... you must like our current governments very much... they are very similar in what they want!

Everyone wants exactly such a place. If you did a poll asking who wants their own home to be a place where they can decide who is in it, 99% of people would say they want that.

Surely you can see the difference between an individual and a government.

[liquidsound]

Is that group that makes most of Bitwig income?

What do you think ? And let's make a difference between DAWs for mixers and DAWs for creators. Professional mixers and professional creators are not attracted by the same DAWs.

I don’t think this thread represent either groups.
Those ones are busy doing it. Here we party

[BobDog]

If I were a developer, I would only participate in a forum I had control of.

Oh, I know. That's how you control the spread of criticism, or attempt to discredit critics directly.

You seem to think that every developer is out to get you. That's really not how it is.

And you seem to think that it´s perfectly fine to trample on constitutional rights and don´t have the slightest idea where this leads to...or let me say already has led to!!

Constitutional rights!

What the hell are you talking about, what constitution and why?

[Milkman]

If I were a developer, I would only participate in a forum I had control of.

Oh, I know. That's how you control the spread of criticism, or attempt to discredit critics directly.

You seem to think that every developer is out to get you. That's really not how it is.

You wager I believe every developer is out to get me because I've been critical about some of your favorite developers in a thread? lol hyperbole doesnt really help, but ok. I know its tempting.

The economic system under which we are having this conversation incentivizes bad behaviors, such as brands attempting to control the spread of negative information, the censorship of employees and customers, the IP'ing of information, ruination of public education, and exploitation of the basic essentials of life - up to and including total environmental collapse.

Everything else is downhill from there, and it isnt paranoia to understand how these economies work. Its econ101.

[Milkman]

In terms of brand management/community management, as soon as you accept that some angry customers will be categorized "unhelpful" and moderated in some way - read: censored - because of their personal intolerance of the brand nonsense that we all just accept as normal, this opens the door for the brand to decide what is helpful and what isnt.

I support common sense communication. A bashing comment w/o any documentation, without any details is what it is : bashing. This is very different from a negative comment that's well supported where the author has taken the time to explain, to demonstrate his/her points and is willing to dialogue. Common sense.

Taking a step back, as I mentioned, assuring a presence from the creators of the product shows that there's someone in the house. The lights are turned on. This creates a situation where 'burglars' so to speak are not tempted to visit. Again, look at the u-he forum, a good example.

You, or others, may like this customer service paradigm, but many of us do not and have not for decades. This economic system is decrepit, and we dont have to just accept these things are normal just because they are common.

Now if you want to discuss problems with society, I had my share on KVR when I mentioned my point of view on the forced injections some year and a half ago. I was quickly insulted by many. And that was on a forum related to other topics, not a product-dedicated one.

The lesser problems I am relating to brands are indeed related to the larger problems in society, economy. IDGAF if people quickly insult me, as I am very much capable of holding my own in any argument or debate on the subject. I can 'show my work' in a way many cannot, so I welcome those people. They've never come for me here, yet.

Brand management philosophy will not dominate this forum on my watch, but if it eventually does, Ill continue spending most of my time on my blog or on mastodon, where I usually spend it all. If admins and mods allow that, that's their problem.

[Milkman]

Company representatives come to social media spaces *they can control* in the way they would control their own private spaces. This sanitizes both "trolls" and "angry customers" one and the same, and is a philosophy that would clearly benefit blood-sucking companies more than customers.

If I were a developer, I would only participate in a forum I had control of.

Oh, I know. That's how you control the spread of criticism, or attempt to discredit critics directly. That's the dream of many people/brands who are unable to reason their way to public acceptance on their own. Its how politics works in the west. That's their philosophy, too.

Then you use streamers, famous people, and the media to blast the best aspects of your brand into everyone's faces, leading to many purchases from people who will later regret it.

Oh, I get it lol. I didnt just get here.

Thank you very much for somebody finally has kept his comon sense!!
Your comment nailed it... it´s a pleasure to read!

Thank you! Its nice to see a kindred spirit online, and I think you know where I am going with this.

We dont need to just criticize these brands in a vacuum, ignoring the fundamental reason they all behave this way. That would be like saying we care about the science of climate change while... building more fossil fuel systems.

If we care about WHY these brands always give us reason to argue, debate, and become upset about how our time and money is being respected, dont we want to think about WHY they all behave this way? Why is it that success under this system must be built upon dishonesty, censorship, information control? Answer: because unethical exploitation requires the control of information to maintain, lest people mob up and destroy your unethical system when they see it.

[mevla]

I don’t think this thread represent either groups. Those ones are busy doing it. Here we party

Yep. So no-one is loosing money because Bitwig doesn't have this or that.

[mevla]

Why is it that success under this system must be built upon dishonesty, censorship, information control? Answer: because unethical exploitation requires the control of information to maintain, lest people mob up and destroy your unethical system when they see it.

Bringing that to a forum not wanting any bashing in it (as I'm sure that well-stated negative comments are welcomed) could be a bit far-fetched. And I'm saying that as someone accumulating strikes and loss of 'features' on youtube. Latest was after I commented about Zizilesnski.

Now if you want to address the apathy of populations that's something else.

[mevla]

The lesser problems I am relating to brands are indeed related to the larger problems in society, economy. IDGAF if people quickly insult me, as I am very much capable of holding my own in any argument or debate on the subject. I can 'show my work' in a way many cannot, so I welcome those people. They've never come for me here, yet.

I do not care if people insult me neither. I didn't 25 years ago, I do not today.

I can 'show my work' in a way many cannot, so I welcome those people. They've never come for me here, yet.

And what if 'they' do ? No big fuss.

To recap, negative well-explained comments are part of a discussion process by their very nature.

Bashing, per comparison, if getting down to attacking. No more discussion, all doors are closed. All it welcomes is fighting.

That's how I see it.

[Milkman]

Why is it that success under this system must be built upon dishonesty, censorship, information control? Answer: because unethical exploitation requires the control of information to maintain, lest people mob up and destroy your unethical system when they see it.

Bringing that to a forum not wanting any bashing in it (as I'm sure that well-stated negative comments are welcomed) could be a bit far-fetched. And I'm saying that as someone accumulating strikes and loss of 'features' on youtube. Latest was after I commented about Zizilesnski.

Now if you want to address he apathy of populations that's something else.

Far-fetched? Explaining the specific, core, root cause of a problem we all deal with and (I assume) seek solutions to is not far-fetched. It is precisely what we should be talking about if we are serious about fixing anything.

No. No it isnt far-fetched unless you arent ready to address the root problem. I understand this is a shock for many.

[pdxindy]

The economic system under which we are having this conversation incentivizes bad behaviors, such as brands attempting to control the spread of negative information, the censorship of employees and customers, the IP'ing of information, ruination of public education, and exploitation of the basic essentials of life - up to and including total environmental collapse.

Wow! All that happened cause the Bitwig devs didn't give out a future roadmap!

[Milkman]

The economic system under which we are having this conversation incentivizes bad behaviors, such as brands attempting to control the spread of negative information, the censorship of employees and customers, the IP'ing of information, ruination of public education, and exploitation of the basic essentials of life - up to and including total environmental collapse.

Wow! All that happened cause the Bitwig devs didn't give out a future roadmap!

Yes all because of Bitwig devs. Yes. Your analysis is bulletproof.

edit: and your memory, rock solid. I began this line of reasoning when talking about steinberg, specifically, when I admitted I have an axe to grind.

[mevla]

Far-fetched? Explaining the specific, core, root cause of a problem we all deal with and (I assume) seek solutions to is not far-fetched. It is precisely what we should be talking about if we are serious about fixing anything.

No. No it isnt far-fetched unless you arent ready to address the root problem. I understand this is a shock for many.

The root problem is straightforward : we all have the 'system' inside of us. This is where any revolution starts.

The problem is, fighting between us.

We all have the 'system' inside of us.

This is where any revolution starts.

Or as the song says :

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhvo6lFQp7Y