Let‘s speculate about 5.2

[nowiamone]

I am still hoping for transparent clips...for some reason not seeing the grid under the waveforms really bothers me more than it probably should, its like an ick!

me too.

Two other clip related things for me. It would also be cool if you could just drag midi clips outside of bitwig and into another daw or vst or folders like you can with audio. Exisiting midi export isn't fun

Also would be nice to have an option to overlap clips instead of override, there have been so many times I wanted to just throw a new midi or audio clip over an existing clip and combine the two instead of copying/pasting or routing things. Guess that might be a niche request though.

Overlap isn’t a niche request in the sense that for other DAWs that workflow is in no way a niche workflow, but essential.

I would absolutely love overlapping.

If "overlap", together with a gluetool, would be introduced as general paradigm-shift in Bitwig, that would be awesome... (At least as optional behavior... dont worry people, who dont like overlapping, dont worry!).

- Overlapping Audio is awesome to quickly make crossfades.
- For the first time in Bitwigs History, you could consolidate (glue) Audio-Snippets together in the Detail View.
- Overlapping Midi Events is awesome to quickly merge Clips more precisely (especially when we would see the grid through Clips)
- Notes could get merged via Gluetool

[Trancit]

Overlap isn’t a niche request in the sense that for other DAWs that workflow is in no way a niche workflow, but essential....

Really...?? Ahhh, that´s the reason why people were fighting over years to finally get the option to overwrite stuff when copying, duplicating etc... in their DAW which by default just overlapped everything...

This "feature" ... well it´s more a big PITA... causes much more probelms than it could solve in any way...
When you have accidentally copied the 100th´s clip on top of the other by accident, doubling it´s content and therefore volume and you wonder what happened while trying to find the accident in a project with many tracks, spending minutes just to find this error you´d kill to get the behaviour Bitwig and Ableton delivering for free...

FL Studio is imho the only bigger DAW atm which still doesn´t have any override function at all and happily just staples everything on top...
People were claiming over and over again to get some help with this issue... yes, not feature but issue... until they at least implemented some kind of detection to select overlaps to find them easier but this doesn´t work too well either...

In all of the other DAWs which used to staple than to overwrite, overwriting still work just with clips but not with note data and still causes lots of trouble and cumbersome workflow that you can never just duplicate a section to overwrite the following...
You seem to have no idea in which paradise you are living if you are not aware of these problems...

So be careful what you wish for!

[nowiamone]

Overlap isn’t a niche request in the sense that for other DAWs that workflow is in no way a niche workflow, but essential....

Really...?? Ahhh, that´s the reason why people were fighting over years to finally get the option to overwrite stuff when copying, duplicating etc... in their DAW which by default just overlapped everything...

This "feature" ... well it´s more a big PITA... causes much more probelms than it could solve in any way...
When you have accidentally copied the 100th´s clip on top of the other by accident, doubling it´s content and therefore volume and you wonder what happened while trying to find the accident in a project with many tracks, spending minutes just to find this error you´d kill to get the behaviour Bitwig and Ableton delivering for free...

FL Studio is imho the only bigger DAW atm which still doesn´t have any override function at all and happily just staples everything on top...
People were claiming over and over again to get some help with this issue... yes, not feature but issue... until they at least implemented some kind of detection to select overlaps to find them easier but this doesn´t work too well either...

In all of the other DAWs which used to staple than to overwrite, overwriting still work just with clips but not with note data and still causes lots of trouble and cumbersome workflow that you can never just duplicate a section to overwrite the following...
You seem to have no idea in which paradise you are living if you are not aware of these problems...

So be careful what you wish for!

I used Cubase for 15 years, so actually i know exactly what i'm wishing for.
Besides, as i said: This could/should be an optional behavior. I don't understand the strict "either or", especially since, as you correctly state, NON-overlap also has its purpose. So why not implement both and make an easy and on-the-fly switching of both workflows possible? [And people who prefer the strict either/or can permanently decide for one behavior in the settings.]

[muzicxs]

I don't understand the strict "either or", especially since, as you correctly state, NON-overlap also has its purpose. So why not implement both and make an easy and on-the-fly switching of both workflows possible? [And people who prefer the strict either/or can permanently decide for one behavior in the settings.]

Having options is not free. It comes with a price. I perfectly understand how a small team of devs need to carefully weigh which options they want to include. Because when you can choose between A, B or C, they now have to test the feature 3 times. If A, B and C are not exclusive, they now have 6 things to test for. Multiply this a few times and you'll soon see why small dev teams need to be wary what to expose as options.

[duanosforde]

Overlap isn’t a niche request in the sense that for other DAWs that workflow is in no way a niche workflow, but essential....

Really...?? Ahhh, that´s the reason why people were fighting over years to finally get the option to overwrite stuff when copying, duplicating etc... in their DAW which by default just overlapped everything...

This "feature" ... well it´s more a big PITA... causes much more probelms than it could solve in any way...
When you have accidentally copied the 100th´s clip on top of the other by accident, doubling it´s content and therefore volume and you wonder what happened while trying to find the accident in a project with many tracks, spending minutes just to find this error you´d kill to get the behaviour Bitwig and Ableton delivering for free...

FL Studio is imho the only bigger DAW atm which still doesn´t have any override function at all and happily just staples everything on top...
People were claiming over and over again to get some help with this issue... yes, not feature but issue... until they at least implemented some kind of detection to select overlaps to find them easier but this doesn´t work too well either...

In all of the other DAWs which used to staple than to overwrite, overwriting still work just with clips but not with note data and still causes lots of trouble and cumbersome workflow that you can never just duplicate a section to overwrite the following...
You seem to have no idea in which paradise you are living if you are not aware of these problems...

So be careful what you wish for!

I really don't think its that deep. Thats why I said "option", like a toggle or something, to turn it on and off. I do this all the time in studio one and never have an issue. For instance if I record a drum fill on one track and want to layer on another track with an existing pattern, sometime its just easier to drag the clip on top of the other track vs going into the piano roll, copying the notes, and pasting on the other track, its just faster. less clicks.

[] Peter:H []

Overlap isn’t a niche request in the sense that for other DAWs that workflow is in no way a niche workflow, but essential....

Really...?? Ahhh, that´s the reason why people were fighting over years to finally get the option to overwrite stuff when copying, duplicating etc... in their DAW which by default just overlapped everything...
[...]

I really don't think its that deep. Thats why I said "option", like a toggle or something, to turn it on and off. I do this all the time in studio one and never have an issue. For instance if I record a drum fill on one track and want to layer on another track with an existing pattern, sometime its just easier to drag the clip on top of the other track vs going into the piano roll, copying the notes, and pasting on the other track, its just faster. less clicks.

Merge vs. Overwrite/Replace could may be controled by pressing Ctrl-m for "merge" while dragging and dropping stuff. I like the idea of having this merge option.

Let me speculate a little bit: One thing that might be difficult when thinking about "merging" might be "gost copy" clips, please keep finger crossed gost copies will happen earlier than version 8 What would be the behavior when "merging" a clip into one single ghost copy. Would it make the particular ghost copy detached? Would it add the merged content to every other ghost clip? But that is just speculation ...

[nowiamone]

I don't understand the strict "either or", especially since, as you correctly state, NON-overlap also has its purpose. So why not implement both and make an easy and on-the-fly switching of both workflows possible? [And people who prefer the strict either/or can permanently decide for one behavior in the settings.]

Having options is not free. It comes with a price. I perfectly understand how a small team of devs need to carefully weigh which options they want to include. Because when you can choose between A, B or C, they now have to test the feature 3 times. If A, B and C are not exclusive, they now have 6 things to test for. Multiply this a few times and you'll soon see why small dev teams need to be wary what to expose as options.

Yea, true, it's a question we always have to ask ourselves: is the development time for XY worth it? I'd say: yes, yes ,yes it is But i understand all this is highly subjective, bound to our specific workflows!

So, in my opinion:
Just a glue tool alone would perfectly fit into Bitwigs general tool-paradigm. Currently numbers 1-5 are used. 6 to 9 would be free for additional awesome tools.
- glue tool: wonderful tool.. i love it. Makes editing a charm in Cubase. Not only for overlapping elements, like merging midi-clips which have been aligned via actually seeing the grid through them - but also to merge notes in the piano roll, or audio-snippets in the audio-detail-view (both actions which simply do not work at all in Bitwig. Consolidate doesn't work for Audio-Snippets in the Detail Editor.)
- drawing tools which aren't just a freehand pen, but Line, Parable, Sinus, Square... and which are modifyable on the fly: When choosing one of them (most of them sit on the same number in cubase btw, so you press a number a specific amount of time to access them), you can hold a modifier key to adjust the amplitude/frequency of the geometrical shape WHILE putting the shape into the automation lane. It's mind blowing to experience this again after using Bitwig for 2 years. Mind Blowing.
I know there are many people who don't even use automation lanes, because they focus on modulators. That's fine, too. I personally have a totally different workflow and mostly use and need automationlanes. For people like me, more drawing tools and the ability to insert Bitwig-Envelopeshapes (or even to 'print' modulation movements) into the automation lane would be absolutely awesome.

[Trancit]

I used Cubase for 15 years, so actually i know exactly what i'm wishing for.
Besides, as i said: This could/should be an optional behavior. I don't understand the strict "either or", especially since, as you correctly state, NON-overlap also has its purpose. So why not implement both and make an easy and on-the-fly switching of both workflows possible? [And people who prefer the strict either/or can permanently decide for one behavior in the settings.]

I really don't think its that deep. Thats why I said "option", like a toggle or something, to turn it on and off. I do this all the time in studio one and never have an issue. For instance if I record a drum fill on one track and want to layer on another track with an existing pattern, sometime its just easier to drag the clip on top of the other track vs going into the piano roll, copying the notes, and pasting on the other track, its just faster. less clicks.

If you look correctly at what I quoted you should notice that I am not against a general option for people crazy enough to wish for it but I am strictly against calling a workflow people having fought against for much time "essential"...
It is not...

[pdxindy]

I know there are many people who don't even use automation lanes, because they focus on modulators.

I doubt there are many people who don't use automation at all... I use modulation in lots of places where I had to use automation in the past, but for sure I use automation and depend on it.

If Bitwig wants to add curve drawing options for automation, that's fine with me. Most of my automation is simple ramps and steps so I don't need a bunch of complex curve tools. Drawing steps could for sure be improved.

[nowiamone]

I used Cubase for 15 years, so actually i know exactly what i'm wishing for.
Besides, as i said: This could/should be an optional behavior. I don't understand the strict "either or", especially since, as you correctly state, NON-overlap also has its purpose. So why not implement both and make an easy and on-the-fly switching of both workflows possible? [And people who prefer the strict either/or can permanently decide for one behavior in the settings.]

I really don't think its that deep. Thats why I said "option", like a toggle or something, to turn it on and off. I do this all the time in studio one and never have an issue. For instance if I record a drum fill on one track and want to layer on another track with an existing pattern, sometime its just easier to drag the clip on top of the other track vs going into the piano roll, copying the notes, and pasting on the other track, its just faster. less clicks.

If you look correctly at what I quoted you should notice that I am not against a general option for people crazy enough to wish for it but I am strictly against calling a workflow people having fought against for much time "essential"...
It is not...

ah, understood. Concerning 'essential', there's a lot of opinions there. But that's fine,that's human nature to have different visions/opinions/workflows

[Trancit]

ah, understood. Concerning 'essential', there's a lot of opinions there. But that's fine,that's human nature to have different visions/opinions/workflows

This...

[duanosforde]

I used Cubase for 15 years, so actually i know exactly what i'm wishing for.
Besides, as i said: This could/should be an optional behavior. I don't understand the strict "either or", especially since, as you correctly state, NON-overlap also has its purpose. So why not implement both and make an easy and on-the-fly switching of both workflows possible? [And people who prefer the strict either/or can permanently decide for one behavior in the settings.]

I really don't think its that deep. Thats why I said "option", like a toggle or something, to turn it on and off. I do this all the time in studio one and never have an issue. For instance if I record a drum fill on one track and want to layer on another track with an existing pattern, sometime its just easier to drag the clip on top of the other track vs going into the piano roll, copying the notes, and pasting on the other track, its just faster. less clicks.

If you look correctly at what I quoted you should notice that I am not against a general option for people crazy enough to wish for it but I am strictly against calling a workflow people having fought against for much time "essential"...
It is not...

ahh,ok, thanks for the clarification. yeah, not everyone would need the option.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Well, I think you need quite some experience with multiple daws to know what is possible and what you might missing. Surely, you can have your very own perspective, but there are also objective indicators for the value of a feature, for example:

- Does it speed up workflow?
- Does it reduce "management" overload and improve your focus on the actual (creative) work?
- Is it smart, or does it configuration or repetition all the time?

These are just examples. When you know a bunch of DAWs, you can compare the feature set, and which DAW has it implemented the best way. Also, if you know more niche DAWs, you might even know features which are pretty good, but unknown in the mainstream. I mean mainstream often doesn't lead to a lot of creative ideas at all... Sometimes the bad implementation is just copied, without thinking about simplification or improvement.

Very often already implemented stuff literally never gets improvement, even though it wasn't that nicely made in the first place. This is understandable from a PO perspective, once something is stable, it seems to be better not touched again ever. Also for real improvement, it is wise to collect a lot of ideas first, best from outside world, to surpass a organizational blindness - which everybody has.

The brain is a lazy thing, it mostly will like which you are used to, no matter if there are better or easier workflows. The more you repeat it, the more you like it, I think everybody experienced that. So real improvement requires a lot of discipline, especially from a developer and PO perspective.

My monday's blah blah to the topic.

[SLiC]

Very often already implemented stuff literally never gets improvement, even though it wasn't that nicely made in the first place.

Or they needlessly change something that most people were happy with like the pop up browser...rather than, for example finish midi comping. Bitwig are no different to any other DAW developer, they get some things right, some things wrong...

[Stan Navi]

If not tomorrow, then when? C'mon Bitwig, we are waiting for your move.