Amp Capture (NAM, Tonocracy, etc) vs. Amp Models (Kuassa, Amplitube, Nembrini, Guitar Rig, etc)

[tommyzai]

Is using amp capture software a dream or rabbit hole nightmare in comparison to amp simulator model software?

Thanks for any thoughts . . . .

Note: I adjusted the title and main question to be more universally useful and interesting.

[Burillo]

NAM is an open-source project, which means others can incorporate it in their projects freely. GENOME can load NAM models too (as well as AIDA-X captures, as well as Proteus captures, as well as having its own models). Tonocracy has its own models, as well as being capable of loading NAM models.

[tommyzai]

NAM is an open-source project, which means others can incorporate it in their projects freely. GENOME can load NAM models too (as well as AIDA-X captures, as well as Proteus captures, as well as having its own models). Tonocracy has its own models, as well as being capable of loading NAM models.

What would you suggest for a simple, but powerful amp modeling rig? Until now, I have only used self-contained rigs, Amplitube, Kuassa, Overloud's TH, etc. I have some really great ones, but I have been reading watching glowing reviews on the new machine learning/A.I.-ish tech a la NAM. Is it worth exploring, or is it an overly complex rabbit hole? Thank you for your response and potential responses.

[Burillo]

no one can make that decision for you. if you're satisfied with what you have now, there's no need to look for more.

I've used TONEX (IK Multimedia's AI capture thingie) as well as NAM captures within GENOME. The issue with them is the same as with other capturing tech: whether you like it entirely depends on the capture. if you like the capture, it can sound like heaven. if you don't, there's really nothing you can do other than go out and find a different capture that you like more. it can be a rabbit hole, or you can stumble upon a capture that you instantly fall in love with and forget anything else exists.

for me, that never happened. moreover, particularly pedals captured with NAM or TONEX always sounded like crap to me, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to use them. high gain profiles others create typically aren't to my taste either - looks like people prefer woofy and tabby distortion, which isn't really my cup of tea. so, in the end, I enjoy the experience, but I prefer modelers, at least for now.

[tommyzai]

. . . I enjoy the experience, but I prefer modelers, at least for now.

May I ask, which modeler(s) do you prefer? I am into a retro Brit invasion and modern indie sound, so perhaps we share some similar tastes in tones . . . crazy hi gain distortion isn't where I'm at either.

[Burillo]

I hate both Brit invasion and modern indie sounds, so no, we don't share similar tastes I'm more of a hard rock and 80's hair metal kind of guy.

I like Kuassa the most, I got their entire suite. I also enjoy Audio Assault's Britone as of late. I never use built in cabinets, preferring instead either mix-ready impulse responses, or Two Notes Torpedo WoS if I want to experiment.

[tommyzai]

I hate both Brit invasion and modern indie sounds, so no, we don't share similar tastes I'm more of a hard rock and 80's hair metal kind of guy. I like Kuassa the most, I got their entire suite. I also enjoy Audio Assault's Britone as of late. I never use built in cabinets, preferring instead either mix-ready impulse responses, or Two Notes Torpedo WoS if I want to experiment.

Well, you are a passionate and straight-forward fella. LOL. Kuassa makes some great stuff and I am proud and honored to use their software. Note . . . . hard rock and hair metal would not exist w/o those Brit Invasion dudes and their guitars!

[zerocrossing]

NAM is an open-source project, which means others can incorporate it in their projects freely. GENOME can load NAM models too (as well as AIDA-X captures, as well as Proteus captures, as well as having its own models). Tonocracy has its own models, as well as being capable of loading NAM models.

What would you suggest for a simple, but powerful amp modeling rig? Until now, I have only used self-contained rigs, Amplitube, Kuassa, Overloud's TH, etc. I have some really great ones, but I have been reading watching glowing reviews on the new machine learning/A.I.-ish tech a la NAM. Is it worth exploring, or is it an overly complex rabbit hole? Thank you for your response and potential responses.

Capturing is all the rage, but frankly, I don’t think it’s actually better than a good model. While I was playing with NAM, I noticed an audible amount of aliasing, and most of the captures seemed to be high gain stuff. I love high gain sounds, but the selection at that time for other types wasn’t that great. I think I found one Fender Twin capture that I liked.

So, I started looking to see if I could get equally good sounds, using just Helix or Amplitube, and every time I was able to get something that I felt was just as good and didn’t have the aliasing issue. Maybe things have changed at this point, but until they get in some oversampling I would not consider NAM a product worth using. Maybe someone who continued following it can chime in.

Even though Amplitube 5 Max is still my favorite, I supplemented it with Tonex and a few cabinet IR packs from Ownhammer. The Tonex is for rare stuff that’s not modeled, like a Vox AC50, and the cabinets are for some of the included IK old cabinets that aren’t that good. Ultimately I don’t use the Tonex stuff that much. I probably could have saved some money and skipped it.

So, I wouldn’t really buy into the whole capture mania we seem to be suffering from unless you have your own amps you want to capture and sell or leave at home while you use a laptop rig. NAM is good if you’re broke, but if you can spend some money, Tonex is worth it just for the user library, and you can use it inside of Amplitube to replace stomp boxes (the main thing I use it for) or amp-cab models. I guess you could use Tonocracy, but since you already have Amplitube, I wouldn’t bother. Frankly, I found the Tonocracy models sounded horrible at any setting, so I guess it could be good to create a free NAM player that let you do something more than the simple NAM player. I was a bit surprised at how bad Atomic’s modeling sounded, though, especially for a commercial product. No wonder they made it free. I couldn’t imagine paying for that, not when there are other good free amp stuff floating around.

[zerocrossing]

. . . I enjoy the experience, but I prefer modelers, at least for now.

May I ask, which modeler(s) do you prefer? I am into a retro Brit invasion and modern indie sound, so perhaps we share some similar tastes in tones . . . crazy hi gain distortion isn't where I'm at either.

If I were you, I’d stick to what you have and maybe add some Ownhammer or Yorke audio cabinet packs. If you have Amplitube Max, you already have a ton of stuff that’s great for British Invasion tones. You can get the free Tonex player and there are some good free Vox stuff on Tone.net. I forget the guy, but some user put a ton of great stuff on there, including a bunch of AC50 tones, perfect for getting that early Beatles sound. I’m also really in love with IK’s Mesa Transatlantic model for low and mid-gain sounds. So good!

[tommyzai]

. . . If I were you, I’d stick to what you have and maybe add some Ownhammer or Yorke audio cabinet packs. If you have Amplitube Max, you already have a ton of stuff that’s great for British Invasion tones.

Can users of Amplitube add cabinet IRs? Any others enable this feature? Kuassa? Overloud? Nembrini? Etc?

[zerocrossing]

. . . If I were you, I’d stick to what you have and maybe add some Ownhammer or Yorke audio cabinet packs. If you have Amplitube Max, you already have a ton of stuff that’s great for British Invasion tones.

Can users of Amplitube add cabinet IRs? Any others enable this feature? Kuassa? Overloud? Nembrini? Etc?

Yeah, easily. It even loads stereo IRs, which seems to be missing from many other plugins. Click on the cabinet section and where the name of the cabinet is listed, click on that to reveal the list. Choose "Custom IR." It will be a blank list until you click on the + button and import your impulses.

I don't know about other plugins, because I rejected them for various reasons. I don't like the sound or UI of Overloud stuff. Kuassa stuff is good, but at $300 it's quite expensive (I paid $75 for Amplitube 5 Max) and I didn't consider it to be better. Same with Nembrini, and if memory serves, it's all a bunch of individual plugins that you have to run alone or in a chainer plugin, which they charge extra for. Amplitube is for me because it's just a nice one-stop-shopping experience where I can get pretty much everything I want in one unified interface. If I felt they were seriously better, I'd have made that concession, but I felt like they were all on par, more or less. All good choices, but it depends on your needs. My top three are...

Amplitube. It's very complete and with the addition of Tonex models it really covers it all except for more experimental types of effects.

Helix Native. On par with Amplitube but with different models. I got it free with an HX-Stomp XL I used to put effects on my Prophet 12, but I do like it.

Guitar Rig 7. It's come a very far way in the last few years, and it's still the champ at exotic effects.

[pekbro]

At least with a modeler you're getting some value for your money, not like the $2k bucks for the IR collection scam (imo). I use the Nembrini stuff mostly, when Im not using a real amp or HW modeler.
Kuassa is nice as well, mostly I prefer the Nembrini workflow and UI.

[tommyzai]

I have been contacting developers and asking questions . . . I just heard back from Kuassa and Nembrini. Both allow users to use their own IRs. I expect Overloud modelers also allows this. I never realized this flexibility existed as I only used presets.

[zerocrossing]

I have been contacting developers and asking questions . . . I just heard back from Kuassa and Nembrini. Both allow users to use their own IRs. I expect Overloud modelers also allows this. I never realized this flexibility existed as I only used presets.

I kind of figured most would.

I only recently started using 3rd party IRs because I noticed that my AxeFX 3 had a bit of sameiness to all the models that I couldn’t quite dial out. Hard to describe… I used to think of it as the models sounded like some idealized version of the amp they were emulating, and not the actual amp itself. I noticed that I didn’t feel that way when using Tonex. Some Tonex captures were just the amp and not the cabinet, so I found some free cabinet IRs to use, and I was getting good results with them. I tried those IRs in my AxeFX, and I was instantly able to feel like I was getting a more authentic version of whatever model I was using. It was too late, though. The success with Tonex and Amplitube was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and I ditched the AxeFX, which sounds amazing, but seemed redundant. The cooling fan always bugged me, so I was happy to be rid of it. I do now think that software is definitely on par with the sound quality of the Fractal models.

My one word of advice is, IR hunting can be maddening. Companies like Ownhammer give you a supertanker sized pack of IRs that seem to account for every possible combination of mics and mic placements. It took me days to figure out what ones worked best. I think they’re all like that, so be prepared to spend some time pruning the collection to find the ones that work best for you.

[waiting man]

Vst guitar distortions sound vanilla to me.
Luckily guitar pedals can help. Even a simple Carcosa hosts a ton of indie dirty and spluttery tones for a decent price.

My personal experience with A360 is cool, the Orange is still hard to beat, the original amps are still fresh, the bass drivers are sexy. Price is not too steep if you have some of the single offerings, and future stuff is included.

NAM kinda blew it away though, some captures just feel right...on the low registers.
The aliasing is definitely there on mostly anything that isn't clean low rhythm stuff.

Maybe I will get one of the smaller Helix things, maybe it will be worth waiting.
It's guitar stuff, new shiny things will be available tomorrow.
And then the next day a new one.
And then...