TW12: Can't make a track loud enough...
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 298 posts since 7 Mar, 2023
There's an audio track in my project that I could not make loud enough to compete with the other tracks, no matter what I did. I tried setting the track levels (both of them) way high, but it's still only sounded about a 1/4 as loud as it should have been. There was no volume automation in place. The clips on that track were recorded at a decent level, and the waveform looks good and fat. I tried using the Loudmax limiter, but it only partially helped. I tried disabling all the plugins on the track, in case one of them was causing it - but that wasn't it. I ended up re-mixing the whole project, after muting all tracks except for the offending one. I then got the offending track to sound ok, by raising the master volume, and then adjusted the volumes of all the other tracks to suit. But then I found a midi track that I couldn't get up to a suitable volume! I have to say I'm fairly new to uaing DAWs (been using TW for about 2 years, now). Many thanks in advance for any tips or insights that you experienced users can offer.
-
- KVRian
- 1374 posts since 9 Jan, 2018
First, good news: this has happened to pretty much everyone using recorded audio. The fixes are generally the same regardless of DAW, and this was something we faced in the Days before DAWs.
My first thought would be to analyze the audio in the track. Was it recorded at a high-enough level? If not, raising its output level (volume) can help, but you're also going to raise the noise level in the track with it. So--number one--if the original track is "bad" in some way (output level, noise level, etc.), raising its level can easily make it worse. If need be, the best bet is always to re-record.
Okay, let's say that either the volume was good or you can't re-record. What do you do?
Some things you can do:
1. Disable any plugins. Does this help? If so, there's an issue with a plugin somewhere in your chain.
2. Drag the audio clips to a new track and see if there's something hidden in the track (sometime automation can get stuck). Did this help? If so, move the plugins to this track and delete the offending one.
3. Click on the clips in question, go to the Actions menu, and raise the gain +6dB. If that helps, good. If not, bring it up another 6dB. You should see the waveforms in the clips get bolder. Remember that this could be adding noise that got recorded in the source, so do it in little jumps like this.
4. Put a copy of the output level plugin (the thing you raise or lower to change the output of the track--it's a plugin! You can add additional ones) *before* the plugins you have modifying the sound. This can also raise the noise, so be careful.
5. Duplicate the track so its volume doubles. Or duplicate both of these to increase the level by a power of 4. You can even put slightly different processing on each track for a neat effect. Turn this problem into a neat solution.
6. Put a SEND on this track and a RETURN on a new track. This will "double" the sound of the track, but can often do so without adding much noise. Another thing you can do with this technique is put the SEND *before* the output level plugin, then push this plugin's pan position hard left. In the RETURN track, push its pan position hard right. You've doubled the sound in terms of volume, but by separating the stereo image so much, the noise level (if any) can stay relatively low.
If all this fails--and you're going to like this answer because this is what you did--the best and safest bet is to rebalance the entire project. Don't despair: I do this all the time, as do many people, because it's the surest way to fix a bunch of problems, not just this specific one.
1. Bring all audio levels on all live tracks down to -inf (total silence).
2. Bring up the quiet track until it starts peaking just under 0dB.
3. Now--bring up each and every other audio track until you like the mix. Yes, the WHOLE project will sound very quiet, but it is ALWAYS better to raise your system output level (computer or speakers or whatever you use to listen to the whole project) than to try to compensate for a quiet track by ramming up its volume.
4. You can put a limiter on your master bus to bring up the entire project volume for rendering--and don't be surprised if it sounds great. One of the hardest things to realize in music is that mixing at quiet levels produces vastly better results than redlining everything.
Hope these tips help! And again--this happens to everyone, and it is certain to happen to you again someday on some other project. It's just one of those things.
My first thought would be to analyze the audio in the track. Was it recorded at a high-enough level? If not, raising its output level (volume) can help, but you're also going to raise the noise level in the track with it. So--number one--if the original track is "bad" in some way (output level, noise level, etc.), raising its level can easily make it worse. If need be, the best bet is always to re-record.
Okay, let's say that either the volume was good or you can't re-record. What do you do?
Some things you can do:
1. Disable any plugins. Does this help? If so, there's an issue with a plugin somewhere in your chain.
2. Drag the audio clips to a new track and see if there's something hidden in the track (sometime automation can get stuck). Did this help? If so, move the plugins to this track and delete the offending one.
3. Click on the clips in question, go to the Actions menu, and raise the gain +6dB. If that helps, good. If not, bring it up another 6dB. You should see the waveforms in the clips get bolder. Remember that this could be adding noise that got recorded in the source, so do it in little jumps like this.
4. Put a copy of the output level plugin (the thing you raise or lower to change the output of the track--it's a plugin! You can add additional ones) *before* the plugins you have modifying the sound. This can also raise the noise, so be careful.
5. Duplicate the track so its volume doubles. Or duplicate both of these to increase the level by a power of 4. You can even put slightly different processing on each track for a neat effect. Turn this problem into a neat solution.
6. Put a SEND on this track and a RETURN on a new track. This will "double" the sound of the track, but can often do so without adding much noise. Another thing you can do with this technique is put the SEND *before* the output level plugin, then push this plugin's pan position hard left. In the RETURN track, push its pan position hard right. You've doubled the sound in terms of volume, but by separating the stereo image so much, the noise level (if any) can stay relatively low.
If all this fails--and you're going to like this answer because this is what you did--the best and safest bet is to rebalance the entire project. Don't despair: I do this all the time, as do many people, because it's the surest way to fix a bunch of problems, not just this specific one.
1. Bring all audio levels on all live tracks down to -inf (total silence).
2. Bring up the quiet track until it starts peaking just under 0dB.
3. Now--bring up each and every other audio track until you like the mix. Yes, the WHOLE project will sound very quiet, but it is ALWAYS better to raise your system output level (computer or speakers or whatever you use to listen to the whole project) than to try to compensate for a quiet track by ramming up its volume.
4. You can put a limiter on your master bus to bring up the entire project volume for rendering--and don't be surprised if it sounds great. One of the hardest things to realize in music is that mixing at quiet levels produces vastly better results than redlining everything.
Hope these tips help! And again--this happens to everyone, and it is certain to happen to you again someday on some other project. It's just one of those things.
Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and even Deezer, whatever the hell Deezer is.
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 298 posts since 7 Mar, 2023
That's wonderfully helpful, Watchful. Thank you so much. I did suspect that it was down to my not-very-advanced mixing skills. Some things you said, back this up. Most of your tips had already occurred to me, but one or two hadn't.
I did end up remixing the project, and that did pretty much solve it. However, I may have to do it a second time, because in the process, I found another track that I couldn't get up to a suitable volume. What I think would be great would be if there was a quick and easy way to determine which track is the quietest, to start with, before any mixing is done. I've already deduced that having a lot of tracks makes balancing everything out more difficult, because the more tracks there are, the more of a cumulative volume there is, to match individual tracks to. But, hey, it's all part of the learning process. I will save your reply, as it's a very useful checklist. Thank you again!
Last edited by Ally007 on Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:05 am, edited 6 times in total.
-
- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 3 May, 2005 from Victoria, BC
I made a plugin that goes to +100 dB. If that isn't load enough, then nothing will be:
https://socalabs.com/developer-tools/hugegain/
https://socalabs.com/developer-tools/hugegain/
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 298 posts since 7 Mar, 2023
Wow, that's interesting; thank you! I gave it a go, and it seems highly effective. I'm looking forward to trying some of your other plugins.FigBug wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:09 pm I made a plugin that goes to +100 dB. If that isn't load enough, then nothing will be:
https://socalabs.com/developer-tools/hugegain/
Last edited by Ally007 on Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 298 posts since 7 Mar, 2023
Will do, thanks! Do you mean that adding +100 dB gain could damage electronic components, or were you thinking more about hearing damage? I can't imagine ever needing +100 dB, but some much lesser amount could be really useful, occasionally.
Last edited by Ally007 on Sat Apr 13, 2024 5:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 298 posts since 7 Mar, 2023
Indeed, someone lacking experience could whack the gain up and get a nasty
- or worse! Nice plugin, though, IMO.
Last edited by Ally007 on Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 1591 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from Indianapolis
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 298 posts since 7 Mar, 2023
PS... This tip of yours cured it for me, when it happened again, today. It confirms my suspicion that there was something unseen messing with the volume of the track (maybe an earlier volume automation that got stuck, like you suggested).
Last edited by Ally007 on Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
- KVRian
- 1374 posts since 9 Jan, 2018
Yes!
Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and even Deezer, whatever the hell Deezer is.
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
More fun at Twitter @watchfulactual
