KVR Audio

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:08 pm

Burillo wrote:
fmr wrote:And are you expecting that Microsoft will write the drivers for that "new" platform themselves? Because the problems, many times, resides not in the model but in poorly written drivers, and that will not change with the "standard".
in fact, it's the other way around. if i remember correctly, CoreAudio has device specifications, which, if followed, do not require any separate driver - the device would "just work". so yeah, in effect, Microsoft will write the drivers for that new platform themselves. so yeah, this will lead to less bugs and crashes, if Microsoft pulls it off.

That's strange... Why do basically all professional audio interfaces have specific drivers then? If they just "work", as you say... Or not? Again, being in this business for more than 25 years, I can't say Core Audio meant something huge in what concerns audio development for Mac OS. And I see usually problems with audio devices in every new OS version.

OTOH; Core MIDI even regressed since the start, and is very far from what was promised.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:11 pm

aciddose wrote:Why do you hope audio remains a niche? Is this your ulterior motive?

I have my reasons, but they have nothing to do with what's in discussion here.

And Why do you hate ASIO? Is that your ulterior motive?

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:16 pm

What Burillo is referring to is not a driver, but the interface or API.

The driver is responsible for interfacing between the hardware, kernel and any interfaces or APIs such as ASIO or coreaudio.

Functions implemented by the OS (such as mixer levels and interfaces, mixing, signal routing, formats) don't need to be provided by the driver.

If you have a situation like with ASIO where the interface provides absolutely nothing, this forces the driver to implement everything itself. It now needs a GUI for its own mixer panel and interfaces for communications with individual applications. By being forced to implement all this additional stuff, it means every driver is different. You have different GUIs, different features and different bugs.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:16 pm

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:23 pm

aciddose wrote:What Burillo is referring to is not a driver, but the interface or API.

The driver is responsible for interfacing between the hardware, kernel and any interfaces or APIs such as ASIO or coreaudio.

Functions implemented by the OS (such as mixer levels and interfaces, mixing, signal routing, formats) don't need to be provided by the driver.

If you have a situation like with ASIO where the interface provides absolutely nothing, this forces the driver to implement everything itself. It now needs a GUI for its own mixer panel and interfaces for communications with individual applications. By being forced to implement all this additional stuff, it means every driver is different. You have different GUIs, different features and different bugs.

Being a Mac OS X as well as Windows user, I can say that, as a user, I see no difference between the two platforms. I simply install the hardware, and if it works as expected (usually does), anything is done in the host application. Besides, many audio interfaces also have control panels in OS X, and the Core Audio interface intself is as spartan as it can be.

In that chapter, there is no advantage in Core Audio I can see.

Again, if MS comes with something similar to Core Audio, fine with me. What I said is, as a user of audio and music applications, I don't feel the need. As a gamer and music listener, I don't feel the need either. OTOH, I had my share of problems with audio drivers (NOT ASIO), but I don't think that a change of model will improve that.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:31 pm

Then why post here at all? You're arguing that you don't care, then why argue?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:36 pm

aciddose wrote:Then why post here at all? You're arguing that you don't care, then why argue?

I care about Windows 10, that's why I am posting here. If you care to read the entire thread, you'll see I've been posting here several times, always regarding Windows 10 (not ASIO - that was you).

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:39 pm

aciddose wrote:Actually I'm not even sure I could generally agree with ASIO not being a niche even in the audio production world, since it only exists on Windows.

I'm not certain Windows is not a niche itself in the audio production world... I know that OSX makes up at least half the market and that there are significant segments on other platforms like "protools HD".

Well, 1. Pro Tools rather aims for the professional sector which means studios which do thousands a year with what they do, and those will probably have Macs then, simply because they can, and 2. there's a few Windows exclusive hosts too, most mentionable FL Studio, or Sonar. Especially FL Studio should have quite a market share. Add to that the hosts which are available for both platforms, which make the rest, except for Logic of course, and maybe you'll find your statement about Windows being niche a bit courageous.

FarleyCZ · Post by **FarleyCZ** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:55 pm

Hmm. My problem is having A LOT of plugins, two DAWs, three programming IDE's, 2D and 3D graphics editors, video editor, four games ... on one laptop. The system is a slowly starting mess right now, but mess I can work with. I'm affraid of upgrade making it all worse. :/

...tried Beta though on diffeent PC. It seems like a good system.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:00 pm

I'd reinstall it anyway. Always good to have a clean system you can build up on. It's some work, but in my experience it pays off.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:02 pm

chk071 wrote: Well,

Once again, if the VST/AU market is 50/50, but the OSX market is 50/50 coreaudio and protools, this would be the ratio:

1 part Windows / 1 part coreaudio + 1 part protools (2 parts OSX)

This makes it Windows 33% / 66% OSX.

In which case Windows starts to look like a niche market in audio production.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:08 pm

aciddose wrote:
chk071 wrote: Well,
Once again, if the VST/AU market is 50/50...

Says who?

benheman · Post by **benheman** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:14 pm

Just get an external HD and backup your system unto it with something like Acronis True Image, before you upgrade. Don't like it? Go back to your backup...no harm done!

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:15 pm

fmr wrote:
aciddose wrote:
chk071 wrote: Well,
Once again, if the VST/AU market is 50/50...
Says who?

I wonder too.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:24 pm

benheman wrote:Just get an external HD and backup your system unto it with something like Acronis True Image, before you upgrade. Don't like it? Go back to your backup...no harm done!

I'd go that path too.

Windows 10 - It's Free. It's Easy. No Worries.