Orange Tree Samples

Binder · Post by **Binder** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:36 am

Hi Greg,

OK, having trouble with the hammer-on pull-off thing...

I'm using Pear in Kontakt 3.0.2 and ProTools 8.0.1

Settings:
HO/PO range: 4
Fingering: have tried both settings
Position shifting: 10

The main problem - not every note gets a hammer on when given an overlapping following note. Examples are low A to B or C above(but not Bb); low B to the D above; middle G to the B above. And there are many more. Pull offs are similarly intermittent. When the hammer on is absent, it simply triggers the second note and the two sound together as a double stop.

I'd certainly like the ability to have a hammer-on available for every note combination, and having that consistency would make the instrument much easier to play... is this possible?

A second issue is that many of the hammer-ons are too quiet. It gives the effect of the bass dropping out when they are triggered, and it makes recording a "live" take a frustrating and unmusical experience. Compressing the heck out of the bass to get the volume of the hammer-ons louder wouldn't be a good solution either...that would bring up the sustain portion of the sound...which is not always desireable.

Any suggestions for dealing with these issues?

Thanks

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:44 am

Binder wrote: The main problem - not every note gets a hammer on when given an overlapping following note. Examples are low A to B or C above(but not Bb); low B to the D above; middle G to the B above. And there are many more. Pull offs are similarly intermittent. When the hammer on is absent, it simply triggers the second note and the two sound together as a double stop.

I'd certainly like the ability to have a hammer-on available for every note combination, and having that consistency would make the instrument much easier to play... is this possible?

Ah, I see what you mean. What's going on is that the engine is finding that the note closest to the hand position is located on a different string than the currently playing one. So the note gets played on the other string, so it's not played as a hammer-on or pull-off.

There are two solutions for this.

1. You can use the "string" keyswitches (which can be moved around in the "remapping" section of the interface. To force the legato notes to stay on a single string.

2. I can make you a custom NKI patch which will strictly use legato articulations whenever within the set legato range.

Binder wrote: A second issue is that many of the hammer-ons are too quiet. It gives the effect of the bass dropping out when they are triggered, and it makes recording a "live" take a frustrating and unmusical experience. Compressing the heck out of the bass to get the volume of the hammer-ons louder wouldn't be a good solution either...that would bring up the sustain portion of the sound...which is not always desireable.

I know what you mean--this is true especially in the high notes. I'll see what can be done to make the legato notes have greater volume.

sleepless · Post by **sleepless** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:57 am

Hi Greg

2. I can make you a custom NKI patch which will strictly use legato articulations whenever within the set legato range.

I'd be insterested too. And by the louder notes too. Thanks, Binder.
And thanks Greg for the great customer service

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:50 am

Sounds like things are leaning toward a custom patch. I'll see what I can do.

Binder · Post by **Binder** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:57 pm

Wow. Thanks.

I'll go for the custom patch.

These requests probably come from my being an electric bass player... I'm used to having hammer-ons where-ever I want them because it's so easy to quickly change position.

As to the hammer on volumes... It would seem natural to me, as an electric bass player, to have some degree of volume control on the hammered-on note, because that's the way it is on electric--if you hammer really hard, it's louder.

Thanks for your support!

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:40 pm

Okay, I just created the NKI patch and put it on this blog post: http://www.orangetreesamples.com/blog/2 ... m-patches/

It's under CoreBass Pear as "CoreBass - Pear - Legato.nki".

It basically makes the legato range static--meaning that if you play legato within the legato range (not the slide range), it WILL play a hammer-on or pull-off. It also boosts the legato articulations' volume/dynamics.

sleepless · Post by **sleepless** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:45 pm

Hi Greg

Many thanks!
Voted the fastest customer satisfaction on earth !

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:58 pm

sleepless wrote: Many thanks!
Voted the fastest customer satisfaction on earth !

Thanks, you made my day!!

Binder · Post by **Binder** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:24 pm

Yow! that was fast. thanks!

I just put the patch in and tried it. For my needs, it's very playable. I love it.

I am having an issue with some of the samples not triggering correctly, though...

I've noticed this mostly with pull-offs...some of the pull-offs trigger what sounds like the note off sample or a mute sample.

Examples are:

Second octave F down to C#
Second octave E down to C# or C
Low D down to all below it
Low C down to G#
Low B down to G#
Low Bb down to G#
Low A down to all below it

I also noticed a few hammer-ons acting like this...but not consistently. It would happen once or twice, and not again. Note that I am on Kontakt 3.0, and not 3.5 - if that makes difference.

Thanks Greg, this is an awesome instrument. I used it in an acoustic folk song and it sounded quite convincing--and it was fun to play. I'm looking forward to getting good at playing it real-time.

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:32 am

Ah, I'll look into the pull-off samples as soon as I can.

I'll be sure to test it in Kontakt 3 as well as 2 and see if that makes any difference as well.

Blackbyrd · Post by **Blackbyrd** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:52 am

Please Greg, if you have time, I don't insist on it, but it would be very nice if you could make a patch with louder, more pronounced slides. I've been asking for this half a year ago, you said that it could be done. Maybe it is the right time?

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:12 am

Blackbyrd wrote:Please Greg, if you have time, I don't insist on it, but it would be very nice if you could make a patch with louder, more pronounced slides. I've been asking for this half a year ago, you said that it could be done. Maybe it is the right time?

Oh--I'm really sorry, your request must have slipped my mind! I'll see what I can do about improving the volume. Did you try out this patch? The slides and legato should be a little louder. Actually, let me double-check the slides to make sure my changes affected those, but the hammer-ons and pull-offs are definitely a little more pronounced.

Binder · Post by **Binder** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:48 am

Hi Greg... still waiting on the fix for the legato patch. If and when you can get around to it, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks!

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:54 am

Did this patch improve the slides/legato volume for you at all?

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/downlo ... Legato.nki

If not, I'll see if I can boost them some more.

Binder · Post by **Binder** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:38 am

The volume of the Legato notes was good for me. I like the patch a lot.

However there were some notes that had mutes or note-ends triggered when the legato samples should have been triggered—and that's the error I was hoping you could fix. See my post above, October 9th, for more details...

Thanks!

Orange Tree Samples

KVR Audio

CoreBass Pear hammer-ons