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Vortex VSTi - Multi Timbral Groove Machine Beta

Official support for: hgsounds.com

Moderator: Astralp

Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:39 am

I have Black Magic. Is it possible to make kits for Vortex using BM?


Unfortunately not, BM only uses 10 samples whereas Vortex Kits use 24 samples so not sure how it could be done, but I'll look into it at some point :)

back and forward are both enabled using the back trigger switch, in the next version I've re-labelled it 'Skip' so it should make more sense.

Another question Andy, the green button (next to internal)on the left on the midi mixer page. How does it exactly work? Seems to change the sound.


The green buttons set everything to default, but I haven't implemented them yet, randoms and defaults are still on my to do list.
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:56 am

como baila wrote:Andy ...

Could you give us a little more info about making 'kits' and presets? I assume a preset is a collection of up to 12 kits for the different sequencers and kits include, or can include instruments as well? I'm struggling to understand the difference between the larger Vortex Samples folder downloaded and the ones in the beta folder. I don't see exactly how to navigate to the folder with the larger sample set from the GUI and am assuming I'm only loading/ playing with the sounds in the small folder that is packed with the beta.

Or will all this be revealed with v1.0?

Como


If you have the samples installed via the installer, the local folder is ignored, it is just for people who haven't bought it seeing as it's a public beta so there are 2 drum kits available for testing.

A Kit is simply a collection of 24 samples which are named in a text file, if you look in the kits folder they correspond to the preset number within Vortex. Eventually there will be an external GUI app for editing kits but if you want to edit them at the moment you will have to edit the text file and change the sample names. All samples are stored in sub directories of the \Vortex Kits\Samples folder. You can add folders of samples to this folder and then reference the in a kit like:

My Sample Folder/My Sample 01.wav

I know it isn't brilliant but Vortex is based on the rompler idea, there will be lots more kits by v1.0, and then eventually an editor will be available.

I'm actually going to move the drums to MSB 1, hopefully I can get around to it today, which will give entire set of LSBs dedicated to drums :)

Oh, the other sample folder is for instrument based samples, there is currently no way of editing these yet and won't be for a while.

I'm on with updating the octave controls at the moment which is taking more time than I expected.
jensa
KVRAF
 
1622 posts since 11 Dec, 2005, from Möllevången, Malmö, Sweden

Postby jensa; Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:20 am

One thing Andy. To me the sequencer tabs ("Step sequencers" and "Multi Sequence") might be better off placed beside each other. Maybe that's just me though. :-)
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:26 am

Good idea, done in the next release :)
como baila
KVRian
 
603 posts since 15 Oct, 2003, from 'SoCal' California

Postby como baila; Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:35 pm

Andy ...

I'm having a devil of a time figuring out the presets. Are the 32 presets, i.e., 'Default,' 'Default,' 'Default (Copy 1),' ... or whatever they are called ... a bank that can be loaded? I can't seem to understand if you can name any of the presets or save and load banks of them?

A couple suggestions for the GUI

1. I'd like to see on the left side of the sequencer window running vertically a keyboard like in a typical midi key editor with maybe whatever the C octave note named like C1, C2 or C3 ... whatever it is ... which I assume fall in the three solid black lines at the bottom, middle and top of the GUI. It's just too difficult trying to put in specific musical notes or even drum notes following GM standard if you can't quickly figure out the specific note trigger you want.

2. I'd like there to be an option to copy the whole enchilada ... including the velocity, CC1, CC2 and 'squash' notes to scale by maybe holding a control key on the keyboard when you click the 'C' button in the GUI.

3. The 'Shift' seems to work backwards in the vertical plane. When I mouse up, notes go down and vice versa. Seems like they should rise or fall in the same direction you are mousing ... unless there is some other good reason for this?

4. I wish when you were in a sequence working on the notes and data that there were solo and mute buttons right in the sequence page for the other sequences that aren't visible. I know this isn't an issue if you are simply inputting things with a keyboard, but if you are arranging and have a looping midi file triggering the sequences, there in no simple way ... as far as I can see ... to temporarily take different sequence pages in and out of the mix for tweaking on any particular one or combination while cycling.

Thanks for considering my ideas.

DF
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.
como baila
KVRian
 
603 posts since 15 Oct, 2003, from 'SoCal' California

Postby como baila; Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:56 pm

Probably 'my bad,' as I thought about it later, but I crashed the program and Cubase when Vortex was cycling and I clicked on 'Flip.'

(Edit: Hmmm ... tried it again when the program wasn't running/ sequencing, and it happened again. Got a 'Visual C++' Run time error in Cubase using Beta 17.)

Como
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:22 am

I'm having a devil of a time figuring out the presets. Are the 32 presets, i.e., 'Default,' 'Default,' 'Default (Copy 1),' ... or whatever they are called ... a bank that can be loaded? I can't seem to understand if you can name any of the presets or save and load banks of them?


They are just the same as any other VST presets, you can rename them, save them, load them to/from fxp/fxb. They are all just initialized at the moment, doing the presets is one of the last jobs once all the functionality is sorted.

1. I'd like to see on the left side of the sequencer window running vertically a keyboard like in a typical midi key editor with maybe whatever the C octave note named like C1, C2 or C3 ... whatever it is ... which I assume fall in the three solid black lines at the bottom, middle and top of the GUI. It's just too difficult trying to put in specific musical notes or even drum notes following GM standard if you can't quickly figure out the specific note trigger you want.


I can put in a keyboard, but as for labeling it is actually a generic 2 octave range that could be anywhere depending on the transpose value etc..

2. I'd like there to be an option to copy the whole enchilada ... including the velocity, CC1, CC2 and 'squash' notes to scale by maybe holding a control key on the keyboard when you click the 'C' button in the GUI.


It does that already? The only things not copied are stutter and squash, I've now added those.

3. The 'Shift' seems to work backwards in the vertical plane. When I mouse up, notes go down and vice versa. Seems like they should rise or fall in the same direction you are mousing ... unless there is some other good reason for this?


Well, it actually feels more natural to me, but I've changed it.

4. I wish when you were in a sequence working on the notes and data that there were solo and mute buttons right in the sequence page for the other sequences that aren't visible. I know this isn't an issue if you are simply inputting things with a keyboard, but if you are arranging and have a looping midi file triggering the sequences, there in no simple way ... as far as I can see ... to temporarily take different sequence pages in and out of the mix for tweaking on any particular one or combination while cycling.


Good idea, but I'm holding off on this one for now as I would like to have a full mixer strip in there at some stage in some way at least the buttons and vol/pan. Just not sure where to put it etc.. I may need to make the plugin wider.. :)
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:23 am

como baila wrote:Probably 'my bad,' as I thought about it later, but I crashed the program and Cubase when Vortex was cycling and I clicked on 'Flip.'

(Edit: Hmmm ... tried it again when the program wasn't running/ sequencing, and it happened again. Got a 'Visual C++' Run time error in Cubase using Beta 17.)

Como


Can't reproduce this, is there a particular situation that causes it?
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:27 am

Sorry for the lack of update, but things are progressing still, I've more or less recoded the synth/drum sample backend to to be compatible with future stuff, needed to be done now before release really. Anyway there have been some changes in the way the kits are stored and so the next release will require re-downloading and re-installing the samples. So I'm waiting a little while to make sure everything is as it should be and finishing the presets etc.. before the next release.

Synth patches as a result are now much like kit files, and loaded from text files, so can be overwritten. With these changes I think it may be possible to build an editing system within Vortex itself, so I think it's worth it :)
como baila
KVRian
 
603 posts since 15 Oct, 2003, from 'SoCal' California

Postby como baila; Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:59 am

Astralp wrote:
I'm having a devil of a time figuring out the presets. Are the 32 presets, i.e., 'Default,' 'Default,' 'Default (Copy 1),' ... or whatever they are called ... a bank that can be loaded? I can't seem to understand if you can name any of the presets or save and load banks of them?


They are just the same as any other VST presets, you can rename them, save them, load them to/from fxp/fxb. They are all just initialized at the moment, doing the presets is one of the last jobs once all the functionality is sorted.


Maybe it's a Cubase thing, or terminology thing. By 'initilized' do you mean that the bank of 32 is set and that there is no way to load any other bank at present? In Cubase, anyway, when the drop down preset list appears, the current names of the presets in the bank don't seem to be changeable and using normal 'save' from inside GUI, I can't seem to save anything to anyplace I can find it later. I'll give it a shot with Chainer to see what happens. I'm just not sure whether when you say you'll do presets later if you mean that the functionality is all there, but you are waiting to the end to create some presets, or that both the full functionality and presets will be created later?

1. I'd like to see on the left side of the sequencer window running vertically a keyboard like in a typical midi key editor with maybe whatever the C octave note named like C1, C2 or C3 ... whatever it is ... which I assume fall in the three solid black lines at the bottom, middle and top of the GUI. It's just too difficult trying to put in specific musical notes or even drum notes following GM standard if you can't quickly figure out the specific note trigger you want.


I can put in a keyboard, but as for labeling it is actually a generic 2 octave range that could be anywhere depending on the transpose value etc..


Sure, but a real piano continues to have the specific notes set, no matter which key or register you are playing in. I only asked for naming the C keys (not any others) as an octave referant with the transpose at zero. That way, I could quickly, for an example, set the transpose at '3' and easily compose something in D#. Of course a fantastically elegant solution ... which I'm just throwing out there as an idea, although probably unrealistically complicated to implement ... would be to have the two octave range anchors, bottom, middle and top, change the name on the 'C' key to reflect the transpose value, i.e., if the original transposed value at 'off' or zero reflects C2, C3 and C4, setting transpose to '- 3' would reset those values to A1, A2 and A3 in the 'label' on the octave marker keys of the vertical keyboard. And what the hell, while I'm fantasizing, make the range marker lines, bottom, middle and top, a little wider and impose across the grids the same shading scheme as in the 'squash to scale' keyboard. I obviously have no clue as to what is possible or how much work this would require ... but to specifically designate a note by placement would be better than the system of having a rule for which note the out of scale grid note goes to ... as I add this last phrase to avoid ending with a preposition.

2. I'd like there to be an option to copy the whole enchilada ... including the velocity, CC1, CC2 and 'squash' notes to scale by maybe holding a control key on the keyboard when you click the 'C' button in the GUI.


It does that already? The only things not copied are stutter and squash, I've now added those.


Great. Anyway, I thought yesterday when I was mucking about I noticed that the CC1 and CC2 weren't copying. I'll check again.

3. The 'Shift' seems to work backwards in the vertical plane. When I mouse up, notes go down and vice versa. Seems like they should rise or fall in the same direction you are mousing ... unless there is some other good reason for this?


Well, it actually feels more natural to me, but I've changed it.


Are you a 'lefty?' :wink:

Seriously, it is just a small point, but thanks for listening. I do appreciate your openness to feedback.

4. I wish when you were in a sequence working on the notes and data that there were solo and mute buttons right in the sequence page for the other sequences that aren't visible. I know this isn't an issue if you are simply inputting things with a keyboard, but if you are arranging and have a looping midi file triggering the sequences, there in no simple way ... as far as I can see ... to temporarily take different sequence pages in and out of the mix for tweaking on any particular one or combination while cycling.


Good idea, but I'm holding off on this one for now as I would like to have a full mixer strip in there at some stage in some way at least the buttons and vol/pan. Just not sure where to put it etc.. I may need to make the plugin wider.. :)


GUI size is always a compromise, but right now it seems pretty 'in the ball park.' I was actually thinking of just a small bar immediately above the upper tabs with the 12 key names, two little squares or circles for each, one for mute and one for solo.

Andy, keep up the great work!

Como[/quote]
Last edited by como baila on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.
como baila
KVRian
 
603 posts since 15 Oct, 2003, from 'SoCal' California

Postby como baila; Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:01 am

Astralp wrote:
como baila wrote:Probably 'my bad,' as I thought about it later, but I crashed the program and Cubase when Vortex was cycling and I clicked on 'Flip.'

(Edit: Hmmm ... tried it again when the program wasn't running/ sequencing, and it happened again. Got a 'Visual C++' Run time error in Cubase using Beta 17.)

Como


Can't reproduce this, is there a particular situation that causes it?


I'll give it a go later today in a couple of other hosts first. After Cubase froze I thought I did reboot all the way ... but maybe not.

DF
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:15 am

Maybe it's a Cubase thing, or terminology thing. By 'initilized' do you mean that the bank of 32 is set and that there is no way to load any other bank at present? In Cubase, anyway, when the drop down preset list appears, the current names of the presets in the bank don't seem to be changeable and using normal 'save' from inside GUI, I can't seem to save anything to anyplace I can find it later. I'll give it a shot with Chainer to see what happens. I'm just not sure whether when you say you'll do presets later if you mean that the functionality is all there, but you are waiting to the end to create some presets, or that both the full functionality and presets will be created later?


With presets, you just save as fxp to save a single instrument or to fxb to save all presets as a bank.

By initialized I just mean they don't have any good presets, they are all just the same. The preset system is fully functional though. I just don't want to do the presets until I'm sure that nothing major is going to change. In the beta stage, big things can change, but once v1 is out all changes have to be backward compatible so that older projects sound and behave identically and so it gets trickier to add stuff as that has to be the priority. So leaving the presets and manual til last means I only have to do those jobs once :) Having said that I'm very close now, I'm doing the synth presets right now.

Sure, but a real piano continues to have the specific notes set, no matter which key or register you are playing in. I only asked for naming the C keys (not any others) as an octave referant with the transpose at zero. That way, I could quickly, for an example, set the transpose at '3' and easily compose something in D#. Of course a fantastically elegant solution ... which I'm just throwing out there as an idea, although probably unrealistically complicated to implement ... would be to have the two octave range anchors, bottom, middle and top, change the name on the 'C' key to reflect the transpose value, i.e., if the original transposed value at 'off' or zero reflects C2, C3 and C4, setting transpose to '- 3' would reset those values to A1, A2 and A3 in the 'label' on the octave marker keys of the vertical keyboard. And what the hell, while I'm fantasizing, make the range marker lines, bottom, middle and top, a little wider and impose across the grids the same shading scheme as in the 'squash to scale' keyboard. I obviously have no clue as to what is possible or how much work this would require ... but to specifically designate a note by placement would be better than the system of having a rule for which note the out of scale grid note goes to ... as I add this last phrase to avoid ending with a preposition.


I have added black note markings to the background so it is easier to see. At some point I might add intelligent naming etc... But it's not a priority right now.

Great. Anyway, I thought yesterday when I was mucking about I noticed that the CC1 and CC2 weren't copying. I'll check again.


Well wait until the next version and report back if it isn't working as I've done some work on that area.

Are you a 'lefty?' :wink:

Seriously, it is just a small point, but thanks for listening. I do appreciate your openness to feedback.


haha, no I'm not actually but I think it's that thing like in 3d shooter games where some people have to reverse the mouse up down. :)

GUI size is always a compromise, but right now it seems pretty 'in the ball park.' I was actually thinking of just a small bar immediately above the upper tabs with the 12 key names, two little squares or circles for each, one for mute and one for solo.


Not sure I understand, as the 12 keys are in the same sequence? I was thinking a mixer strip possibly to the right of the lists. That would expand the plugin a bit, but would also create some more space for future stuff, which I'm sure there will be plenty!

Andy, keep up the great work!


:) I can't wait to get v1 done now, I'm trying to get the remaining big jobs out of the way now.
como baila
KVRian
 
603 posts since 15 Oct, 2003, from 'SoCal' California

Postby como baila; Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:43 am

Astralp wrote:
I have added black note markings to the background so it is easier to see. At some point I might add intelligent naming etc... But it's not a priority right now.


Understood ... but I'm just repeating myself to make sure you understand my idea of making the shading from the 'squash to scale,' i.e., the activated notes are lighter in the little keyboard, also reflects across the main sequence window with shading going horizontal across the grid in sync with the 'squash to scale keyboard? Sorry for the convoluted sentence. I think that's different than 'intelligent' naming linked to the transpose, no?

GUI size is always a compromise, but right now it seems pretty 'in the ball park.' I was actually thinking of just a small bar immediately above the upper tabs with the 12 key names, two little squares or circles for each, one for mute and one for solo.


Not sure I understand, as the 12 keys are in the same sequence? I was thinking a mixer strip possibly to the right of the lists. That would expand the plugin a bit, but would also create some more space for future stuff, which I'm sure there will be plenty!


Let me try again. Yes, I am talking about the horizontal key tabs at the top of each sequence page that are used to mouse between the different pages ... or when the 'A' tab is selected change sequencer pages by keyboard input, 'C' through 'B.'

Imagine I am triggering the sequences with a 16 bar midi loop with different note lengths triggering different combination of the sequencers in certain sections of the 16 bars. I am cycling the loop while I work on any specific sequence to make that sequence fit with the others ... whether it is instrument, percussion, drums or whatever.

All of the sudden, I can't hear a voice clearly because of notes on the other sequences, so without leaving the page I hit a little 'mute' button right above the note tab that refers to the sequence I don't want to hear cycling with the other sequences ... or with use of several 'solo' buttons, still all from the same page, just select a subset of the 12 possible sequences to work with.

Is this clear? That's why I thought a small horizontal bar directly above the 12 sequencer note tabs would work fine.

Como
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.
Astralp
KVRian
 
1105 posts since 25 Feb, 2005, from UK

Postby Astralp; Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:48 am

Ahh that's very different, that's a sequence solo/bypass, I see, in that case it's a much bigger job, I'll add it to the list. The midi bypass couldn't do this job because sequences can be sent to any midi channel. I'll add it to the list.

I've made big changes to the squash and the display, so can you revisit that subject after seeing the new one? :)
como baila
KVRian
 
603 posts since 15 Oct, 2003, from 'SoCal' California

Postby como baila; Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:17 pm

Astralp wrote:Ahh that's very different, that's a sequence solo/bypass, I see, in that case it's a much bigger job, I'll add it to the list. The midi bypass couldn't do this job because sequences can be sent to any midi channel. I'll add it to the list.


Now I've got it! It's just an idea ... if it makes sense?

I was thinking of midi channel 'solo' and 'mute' because I am sending all sequencers on different midi channels so I can record each one's output to separate midi tracks ... for later editing, etc. I've got to say my Cubase template is getting pretty grand!

Doing things this way takes things to another level. I now am using Toby's 'loopmidi' as output from the midi track fed by Vortex, with that midi track filtered to pass only one specific midi channel/ Vortex sequence. Now I can add several other synths receiving that one Vortex midi channel through input from the virtual midi cable and place, for an example, an arp or other midi effect differentially on one of the outputs. It rapidly becomes incredibly powerful.

Another example is sending the same Vortex output to three instruments on separate midi tracks and using Cubase 'midi modifier' midi effect, transpose two of the voices up the 3rd and 5th, plus set the modifier to key and scale. Now I can play a chord with a string enselmble and automate the Cubase mixer to bring up and down and in and out the three voices. I'm feeling smug.

Astralp wrote:I've made big changes to the squash and the display, so can you revisit that subject after seeing the new one? :)


Will do.

Como
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.
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