I read a lot about panning and certain plugins which sort of make things sound wider.
I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on these things?
Thanks
Mixing Techniques
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- KVRist
- 33 posts since 1 Feb, 2011
How do i get wider sounding mixes?
I read a lot about panning and certain plugins which sort of make things sound wider.
I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on these things?
Thanks
I read a lot about panning and certain plugins which sort of make things sound wider.
I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on these things?
Thanks
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- Banned
- 2033 posts since 19 Jun, 2011 from a world of Black Thunder chocs
Hi
You have your 3D sound stage - left to right / back to front ( and also low frequency to high frequency).
I would say that panning does not give a wider mix per se, so much as providing movement left-right-left-right etc for sound sources across the existing soundstage.
With wider sounding mixes - and indeed mixes that seem to extend beyond your monitors themselves - there are a variety of tricks and cunning stunts.
SoundOnSound does a quicker and more articulate job than me in describing some of these tricks, so here for your viewing pleasure is...
http://www.soundonsound.com/search?Keyw ... o+widening
You have your 3D sound stage - left to right / back to front ( and also low frequency to high frequency).
I would say that panning does not give a wider mix per se, so much as providing movement left-right-left-right etc for sound sources across the existing soundstage.
With wider sounding mixes - and indeed mixes that seem to extend beyond your monitors themselves - there are a variety of tricks and cunning stunts.
SoundOnSound does a quicker and more articulate job than me in describing some of these tricks, so here for your viewing pleasure is...
http://www.soundonsound.com/search?Keyw ... o+widening
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 1 Feb, 2011
Is it even necessary to pan ?
Cause surely then you would have things coming more out of one speaker....:S
and thanks for the articles but they were rather complex for someone of my limited knowledge on this area haha.
All i really want to know is...
What things should i be panning and how much, as i know the kick and bass are always mono and dead center, then i just know that sometimes people pan stuff to make more room etc?
I also read last night a lot on mono compatibility which completely ruined me sooo lost with that one..?
What things should i be looking to make wider in the mix as well cause when you listen to tracks like from people like
Hardwell
Nicky Romero
Alesso
and all the big guys they all have full sounding wide tracks? how could i get my tracks a little wider in this respect?
If anyone at all could shed some light on this is would be great thanks !
Cause surely then you would have things coming more out of one speaker....:S
and thanks for the articles but they were rather complex for someone of my limited knowledge on this area haha.
All i really want to know is...
What things should i be panning and how much, as i know the kick and bass are always mono and dead center, then i just know that sometimes people pan stuff to make more room etc?
I also read last night a lot on mono compatibility which completely ruined me sooo lost with that one..?
What things should i be looking to make wider in the mix as well cause when you listen to tracks like from people like
Hardwell
Nicky Romero
Alesso
and all the big guys they all have full sounding wide tracks? how could i get my tracks a little wider in this respect?
If anyone at all could shed some light on this is would be great thanks !
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- KVRAF
- 1674 posts since 22 Oct, 2004 from Schmocation
If you don't pan anything, you get mono. A lot of listeners essentially listen in mono, but stereo potentially gives a richer listening experience, a feeling of a bigger and more dynamic sound.sunderlad wrote:Is it even necessary to pan ?
Experiment with:
Panning the same part panned left and right (not necessarily 100%), but effected or delayed on one side.
Spreading drum kits and percussion across the stereo field.
"Question/answer" parts (for instance vocals) panned left and right.
Transition sounds (zooms, reversed cymbals etc) moving across the stereo field.
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- Banned
- 2033 posts since 19 Jun, 2011 from a world of Black Thunder chocs
Sorry Sunderlad - I misinterpreted your first post as trying to ask about advanced stereo widening tips and auto-panning, but really it is a question just about panning.
Firstly, please note that the bass and kick can be panned away from the centre (either as mono or stereo sources), and this is sometimes done as a 'spot effect' during the course of a song. However, there are sensible reasons for keeping both in the centre, especially in the dance / club music genre. (Equally, keeping both centre is a throwback to vinyl days, but nowadays we have many more options regarding the delivery media of our music).
Please also note that whilst there are traditional and 'common sense' reasons for how people usually pan instruments, the choice is entirely yours when it comes to how you want to present your sound. If you want a mega-wide bass sound (or one panned in mono to the middle-left of the soundstage) then that's cool - so long as it sounds good in the context of your song.
In addition to Skipscada's fine suggestions, I would suggest keeping the most important elements of your song fairly towards the centre, panning subsequent or less important instruments to progressively wider zones as they are brought into the song, and keeping the wider far 'wings' for effects or the lesser percussive instruments.
Additionally, you might want to also try panning instruments around the sound stage with regards to a traditional orchestral set-up, particularly if you're making classical music:
http://library.thinkquest.org/22673/orchestra.html
As myself and Skipscada have suggested, maybe move some of the sounds around the soundstage - this avoids them getting too static.
Finally, aside from soundstage and panning issues, one of the other reasons why your mentioned artists have such full-sounding but clear mixes is because their chosen instruments (should) occupy all of the different octave ranges of the sound frequency spectrum, and care is taken to avoid too many frequency clashes between the instruments.
Using some of these tips by Skipscada and myself will help you to create wider and fuller sounding mixes.
ps, mono compatibility refers to how your song sounds once it is transferred from a stereo mix into a mono one. Sometimes stereo effects on instruments, particularly bass instruments, can cause notes to be reduced in volume or lost altogether if these stereo effects have caused 'phasing' problems.
One of the best, and free, effects to check your mixes for mono compatibility is this (Gonio 3):
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/gonio_by_ukm
Firstly, please note that the bass and kick can be panned away from the centre (either as mono or stereo sources), and this is sometimes done as a 'spot effect' during the course of a song. However, there are sensible reasons for keeping both in the centre, especially in the dance / club music genre. (Equally, keeping both centre is a throwback to vinyl days, but nowadays we have many more options regarding the delivery media of our music).
Please also note that whilst there are traditional and 'common sense' reasons for how people usually pan instruments, the choice is entirely yours when it comes to how you want to present your sound. If you want a mega-wide bass sound (or one panned in mono to the middle-left of the soundstage) then that's cool - so long as it sounds good in the context of your song.
In addition to Skipscada's fine suggestions, I would suggest keeping the most important elements of your song fairly towards the centre, panning subsequent or less important instruments to progressively wider zones as they are brought into the song, and keeping the wider far 'wings' for effects or the lesser percussive instruments.
Additionally, you might want to also try panning instruments around the sound stage with regards to a traditional orchestral set-up, particularly if you're making classical music:
http://library.thinkquest.org/22673/orchestra.html
As myself and Skipscada have suggested, maybe move some of the sounds around the soundstage - this avoids them getting too static.
Finally, aside from soundstage and panning issues, one of the other reasons why your mentioned artists have such full-sounding but clear mixes is because their chosen instruments (should) occupy all of the different octave ranges of the sound frequency spectrum, and care is taken to avoid too many frequency clashes between the instruments.
Using some of these tips by Skipscada and myself will help you to create wider and fuller sounding mixes.
ps, mono compatibility refers to how your song sounds once it is transferred from a stereo mix into a mono one. Sometimes stereo effects on instruments, particularly bass instruments, can cause notes to be reduced in volume or lost altogether if these stereo effects have caused 'phasing' problems.
One of the best, and free, effects to check your mixes for mono compatibility is this (Gonio 3):
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/gonio_by_ukm
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- KVRian
- 669 posts since 2 Apr, 2005 from out there
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- Banned
- 1076 posts since 15 Jun, 2012
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- KVRian
- 616 posts since 18 Dec, 2010
+1 on flux stereo tool - i cannot believe its free - i use it on every track such an amazing and simple piece of kit!
Remember the higher the frequency content the more you can pan - of course - you can be creative, but i tend to start off by this rule then get to the creative-ness when everything has its place to that rule
Hope this helps a little
Mike
Remember the higher the frequency content the more you can pan - of course - you can be creative, but i tend to start off by this rule then get to the creative-ness when everything has its place to that rule
Hope this helps a little
Mike
Anybody can do anything if they set their mind to it
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- KVRian
- 894 posts since 26 Aug, 2005 from Oregon, USA
This is where Ozone's mid-field tools are pretty cool for final mastering.
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- addled muppet weed
- 111329 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
