I have been using Reason since version 2 but for most of that time I have rewired. I have always had a love/hate relationship with Reason vs other DAWs. I love the core of what Reason is but I wish I could use more stuff in it and not just software. I started rewiring it around 2005 and thought hey maybe I can leave it alone when version 5 came out because it did everything i wanted to in the box. But I still missed that variety that fun of using something different every now and then to spice up the music making process and make it more experimental and less a process of doing the same sorts of things over and over again because that became boring and started buying plug ins again late 2011 because of that. I still rewire Reason but I do not care all that much about Rack Extensions. The only one that really blew me away was Polar. I really like the free ones they gave out too. I like Radical pianos though at first I did not but how will it contend against my other piano stuff like Reason Pianos and my soon to be acquired Alicia's Keys (should be delivered tomorrow yay) I would say that it will not hold up very well especially when I got AK for $30 vs the $99. That being said I still keep Reason around rewired into Live and I use it at different times when i want something from it. i have some refills that I absolutely adore like Disco School and Reason Drum Kits but I have vsts that I could not live without like Diva and SampleTank. I think finding a happy medium in all of this non sense is where its at. Everyone is looking for an all in one solution when really everything is best at something different.

PH don't allow transfers: you write a balanced dissertation on the topic

Smaller devs charge for or don't allow transfer; you call them 'pigs' and change your sig

A user disagrees with you concerning the benefits of torturing software pirates: you accuse him (me!) of using crax

Some consistency in tone and content of your posts would be nice. But hey, why should you care what I think? (rhetorical question).

That happened at version 3 of Acid, as well. Some cool features were added but it lost the simple charm that made version 2 such a refreshing experience.

In the 90's, Cubase got up to version 5 before Steinberg decided to overhaul and drastically simplify it with SX. Many power users screamed but I personally loved it. Since then, Steinberg has done a good job of adding new features without significantly impacting the work flow and I find that I can work in almost exactly the same way in Cubase 6 as I did in SX.

Beautifully stated. That's why I love Maschine so much, it integrates beautifully with everything - even my iPhone! - and thus allows me to get the very best of multiple solutions.

TTOZ, i generally agree with what you are saying

TTOZ, you have no idea what you are talking about


I could not vote, because I agree with both of the above.

when did i accuse you of using a crack?

did you notice the part where i said i won't be buying rack extensions and i have said it multiple times because they don't allow license transfers? How is that not balanced?

If they get a bit of the "special treatment" it's because it happens to be the main host software i now use so have the most vested interest in. what is so hard to understand about that? There's of software and *some* devs i plainly could not give a crap about with their attitude. At least props handles my emails amazingly professionally, amongst the best i have ever encountered, especially after i screamed at them when my auth wasn't working. but no way will they get RE money from me until they allow transfers.. That said, remember, i am in AUSTRALIA so even if they never allow them there is nothing i could legally do about it.. the new law is only for EU.


EDIT: oh i remember now... my pirates anger topic... i took a sarcastic remark at you as being a sympathiser as retalliation for your anger towards me.


FWIW, i am sorry if i offended you... i was feeling very very angry at thieves that day for causing so much damage to the rest of us. Remember it is pirates that are the cause of ALL copy protection and inconvenience to the paying customer, so i have every right to be furious at them now and then, but yes that topic was OTT and hence was locked, appropriately i might add (thanks mods).

I guess you have forgotten or never saw the very big topic and charity i attempted to set up and tried really hard to, to try get people from resorting to piracy or even to come legit, but i could hardly get any support??.. how's that for an oxymoron.


Lastly, peace, FFS. I have no grudge towards you.

I voted for "generally agree with what you are saying".

I also agree that there is a sudden rise in the number of Reason 6 copies being sold. But to your two reasons why, I want to add a third. This is connected to the 2nd point i.e. no crossgrades. As many on this thread have pointed out, its simply that Reason will not handle vst/au plugins. There might have been a lot of people who were hanging on to older or more current versions of Reason, with the idea that it may one day support vst/au. Now that its been confirmed that this will not happen, these people are now selling. For some of them, it may also be irrelevant whether crossgrades are offered or not, because they only want vst/au, and REs just won't do. But its worth noting that some would reconsider their decision to sell if crossgrades were offered.

I too am holding off buying extensions till PH changes its license transfer policy, so I completely agree with you there. I suspect its not been done yet because of technical difficulties in dealing with the different transfer policies of the various developers. As for crossgrades, obviously I don't like that they aren't being offered yet. But for me personally, I have no intention of stopping to use my vst/au plugins, so I would much prefer new REs that take advantage of the Reason environment and workflow rather than straight ports anyway. In other words, if crossgrades are offered, I might end up buying a few, but I'd be more interested in the stuff I don't have anyway.

This raises another question, that of how different RE versions will be to their vst counterparts. As we have so far seen, some are mostly identical, while others claim to be completely new products e.g. Etch Red. I don't know how true this is, but having picked up Etch in the recent no-brainer, I don't think I'm buying Etch Red any time soon. Before I bought Etch, this was actually one of the REs on top of my list. And if Etch Red is unlikely, then the ones that are even more similar to their vst counterparts are even more unlikely.

i think you do not consider the fact that reason's user did not knew about kvr before the release of the reason extension.

And I want to add to my above post, if there is a near identical vst and RE version available for a plugin I dont already own, I'll go with the one that allows license transfers. Unless there is a huge difference in price. I think this may end up becoming the crux of the issue for PH, and may lead to a lot of lost sales.

@ carrieres i honestly have no idea what you are saying, sorry

to everyone.. You know i thought of something else.. eventually with this new european law a bunch of pissed of Eu users WILL band together and class action against props.. and that is going to get messy.. really messy, and very expensive.. enough to put them in a financial pit if they suddenly have to refund thousands of users. sigh...

I doubt this ever happening. Consumer-level class actions generally only happen if you have a bunch of people who really want to take a company down and convince a lawyer to take it on no-win-no-fee or if the lawyers themselves see a nice juicy fee from taking on a big target, such as an airline. Prop's business is nowhere near big enough to attract the lawyers and it's hard to see a large number of people being so p*ssed with licence transfers that they will organise it, especially as these cases take too long to process. I just got a notification about a case over car hire in California that dates back to 2007.

The only reason the Oracle case went to court is because Oracle sued UsedSoft to stop them trading licences. It wasn't the other way round.

my english is so terrible
why reason's user would want to sell reason at kvr before reason 6.5 ?
there is no link with KVR audio and reason without RE !

That is how I find things also. I have v4 or v5 of Reason, Honestly can not remember which as haven't used it for ages nor is it even installed so I can check quickly. I got in via the way old lite "adapted" edition or whatever it was called with Pro Tools in the egnition pack or whatever it was called many moons ago. Then ended up going for the full version as it was good VFM at the time, I was working alot more then also which made it useful to have reason for compatability as alot of people I was working with they would use it rewired into Pro Tools; This was before Pro Tools had much in the way of virtual instruments available and thier A.I.R group was not around...blah blah blah and so on. As said it was good at the time. Then I got to v4 and v5 came out which was at the time affordable to me so I upgraded, Im not in that sort of position anymore. I use a combination of Pro Tools for multi-tracking, editng and mixing along with Live for all the things it is simply amazing at/can do which Pro Tools is not/does not so well. Its a really ideal duo for my needs.

I really lost intrest when Propellerheads released Record as again it was a closed off enviroment and offered Me nothing at all, Propellerheads merging the two into one was a great move I thought and still think as it mean't Reason truely could do everything a user could want to do from multi-tracking, editing and mixing from my viewpoint as an audio engineer and also retain all of its song writing/creative side from my viewpoint as a musician. If I had of known that v6.0 and v6.5 would turn out like they did then I probably would of upgraded and then sold it. Perhaps upgraded and enjoyed it for use on my laptop even but as I'm only working very much part-time these days and my day job is as a fulltime, single father of two. Therefore abit of a missed oportunity is just that and Propellerheads AB have always done things the way they want to do them. I do hope and would love to see/hear the problems with thier setup all sorted so everyone is happy. I really think for the price they should include ReCyle 2 and really ought to consider it for Reason 7 as then at least users can roll thier own REX material, Making the closed off setup as complete as it can be

I really dislike the Rack Extension thing, Just another closed off crud deal, Just like SONAR's PRO CHANNEL thing, AVOID's AXX format. I won't be doing anymore business with AVID, Have Pro Tools 9 and it does all I need it to do and as dislike has turned into despise of them as a company with what they have been doing (PT v9 seemed like they were going in the right direction and v10 came along and crushed that) won't see any of my money again, Same as even though I use it Max 4 Live is another crud clossed off deal plus with the demise of Cycling '74 discontinuing thier old pluggo, hipno and MODE plug-ins + pluggo runtime for other 3rd party developers I lost use of quite alot of plug-ins I really liked/used I was pissed off about that.

So with regards to people selling software licenses, In this case Reason it does not cause Me personally any concern, Ableton Live seems to be on sale in the market place regular but as a Live user it does not bother Me one bit. I hate that Pro Tools loves Me so much and I love Pro Tools also as its by far the one piece of audio software that I personally can get things done really fast/suits my needs but those behind it are a bunch of rotten shitbags...Oh yeah its just business

Anyway I've rattled on long enough, Who knows...Perhaps some company or dev will release a Rack Extension which wraps VST/VSTi (and for MAC folk AU) plug-ins enabling Reason users to rack up their stockpile of plug-ins, I'll bet that it is possible or will be...but will Properllerhead have it available in their online RE app store thing? HELL NO Still they ought to but then its a one off 30% for their pockets then and yep that ain't good for business is it?

Now seriously I don't know what I am talking about as it is hard to keep up with everything with so much available, It is a good time to be a musician and be an audio engineer right now with the amount of choice both in hardware and software format, That much I do know/Am certain of

All the best to all as always

Dean

PS: It needs its own name as they are Rack Extensions, Not Plug-Ins for automatic PDC. I propose and also vote for "RDC" (automatic RDC)
So Props sort out a RE for the problems caused by You're RDC

Suppose Reason cost $19. Would this topic even exist then?

Many people here at KVR, it seems to me, are not really evaluating Reason as one single tool for their toolbox of tools. Instead they're evaluating their own wallets, on the premise that "if I don't get everything that's out there, crammed into a single DAW or product, costing me less than X dollars, then it sucks".

On the premise Ive owned it since version 3, and now Ill have to pay for individual bits and pieces to upgrade it instead of a new seasonal update with tons of stuff. The samplers and FX are now starting to get on, even though they are good, I love the SSl mixer, but as far as I can see the original units will eventually fade away and be replaced with shinier new ones, for a lot more dollar. I considered selling reason after all the fiasco with PDC and internet downloads, but after careful thought Im going to keep it as it is, probably the last time it will see a major update. Main reasons are for the Kong drum designer and SSL mixer and new tape delay, I wonder how long it will last from now on.. REALLY???