Next after UNO-LX
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david.beholder david.beholder https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=159839
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1866 posts since 13 Sep, 2007
UNO-LX is wonderful, but is there any plans for something else? Say for 2 some vintage 2 osc emu?
Murderous duck!
- KVRAF
- 7407 posts since 20 Jul, 2004 from Clearwater
It seems that it will be an update of the SH-101 emulation.
You are currently reading my signature.
- KVRAF
- 4534 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
There is already one which is really good: Messiah.Kees49 wrote:Yeah, a descent Prophet V emu...
I use it everyday and it is excellent. As all the emulations made by Gunar Ekornas and his team.
They are:
- Messiah (awesome emulation of SCI Prophet 5)
- Memorymoon (emulation of Moog Memorymoog)
- Me-80 (emulation of Yamaha CS-80)
So I don't think that an emulation of SCI Prophet 5 by Togu Audio Line would be a good idea... My opinion is that the best way will be to grab:
- something very original not yet broached by anyone
- or something sadly discontinued after an excellent life
- or something currently available but to much expensive for the majority
But if Patrick Kunz (TAL) prefers to stay in the subtractive synthesis without any exception, my opinion is that these 5 ideas above are excellent subjects that will give him a great work and that also are among the most popular, the most legendary vintage synths which still wait at this day for a real excellent emulation and at a reasonable price.
I haven't mentioned Roland JP-8000 because there is now an excellent emulation made by Adam Szabo who made specifically his Bachelor's Thesis in Media Technology on the subject of... How to emulate the Roland Supersaw! His emulation JP6K is awesome (it needs to be still improved for other points, but it's undubitably the closest emulation of the JP-8000 supersaw technics), I love it since the day I bought it and it would be unfair from myself to Adam to suggest another cheap (as all the products from TAL) emulation of the JP-8000. I prefer to encourage Adam in his excellent work... or, why not if the idea is shared by both, collaborate with Patrick for a stroke of genius in common.
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david.beholder david.beholder https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=159839
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1866 posts since 13 Sep, 2007
It's better than Arturia but not TAL level of emulation. I know couple of guys who've put to the closet/sold their 60/160 after unoBlackWinny wrote: [*]Me-80 (emulation of Yamaha CS-80)
Murderous duck!
- KVRAF
- 23115 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
But not with Monark and not with DIVA.BlackWinny wrote:they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta)
It was until Diva got the Digital oscillator and completely nailed it better than JP6K, plus it's not 32-bit Windows only.BlackWinny wrote:His emulation JP6K is awesome (it needs to be still improved for other points, but it's undubitably the closest emulation of the JP-8000 supersaw technics)
Last edited by EvilDragon on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
I share your enthusiasm for the PD synthesis method in Casio way, although there are already some atempts (Kassiopeia follows that path pretty close, and Tube Ohm seems to have achieved something interesting with it's latest synth Phasewave).BlackWinny wrote: Or to start straight out in a new direction by a really excellent emulation of the phase distortion synthesis (the Casio CZ-series, for instance the cheap, simple but excellent Casio CZ-101) which in terribly underestimated regards to its awesome possibilities. At this day, many VST (and hardware) synths pretend to use the phase distortion (and sometimes pretend to emulate a Casio CZ, let me have a good laugh) but absolutely anyone after Casio has really gone into the deep heart of this synthesis. An emulation of the Casio CZ-101 (don't ask from now on an emulation of the Casio CZ-3000/5000) should be an excellent idea to give a new fresh air to the team, maybe like a little pause as recreation in another synthesis before a great come back to the subtractive synthesis.
Of someone manages to emulate the CZ-101, then amulating the CZ-3000/5000 (the latest just adds a sequencer), is a piece of cake, since they just added polyphony (16 voices on 3000/5000 against just 8 voices in 101/1000 - which, when we use two synth lines, something quite common, cuts that number by half, leaving you with just four voices). Besides that, the synth engine is exactly the same.
Fernando (FMR)
- KVRAF
- 4534 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
Diva... Ah yes ! Of course you're right. I'm gonna write few more lines at the end of this post.EvilDragon wrote:But not with Monark and not with DIVA.BlackWinny wrote:they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta)
It was until Diva got the Digital oscillator and completely nailed it better than JP6K, plus it's not 32-bit Windows only.BlackWinny wrote:His emulation JP6K is awesome (it needs to be still improved for other points, but it's undubitably the closest emulation of the JP-8000 supersaw technics)
About Monark... I'm a bit mixed. And I feel the same about all the plug-ins which need an external engine (Reaktor player, Kontakt Player, etc.) to work. Since the death of Kore (after only 5 years of life) which de facto dragged down with it ALL the Kore-based instruments and effects, I have decided to nevermore put many eggs in one basket, because I have lost to much money. In its infinite kindness Native Instruments had announced "Owners of the full versions of Kore 1 or Kore 2 (excluding software-only versions) who are interested in Maschine can purchase a special crossgrade price of $449 / €399 until the end of the year." and also "Future versions of the Komplete bundle and of individual NI instruments might no longer be fully compatible with Kore, and will not include special preset versions for its sound browser." Was it a joke ??? And what about the users of all the instruments which were bought to be used on the Kore Player ? They have been totally forgotten.
So now I avoid like the plague all the instruments and effects which are based on an external engine and need therefore a "player" (or synonym in some other companies). Maschine or Komplete in their full version could resolve the problem... but they are not affordable for everyone. And I don't dare to think of what will happen to thousands of people the day Native Instruments discontinues Kontakt and Kontakt Player... Because the past have shown that a company is unhesitatingly capable to throw in the bin a largely sold and successful product without the least qualms for the thousands of customers. So much the worse for them! Period.
The situation is even aggravated by the fact that the Native Instruments products are protected by an online unlock needed at each reinstallation, even for a simple Kontakt Player by the way. So unlike simple VSTs, after their discontinuation all these products will nevermore be reinstallable even offline. Anyone!
I can accept a situation like this for independant products which don't need external engine, because each of these products have its own life and its own end of life. But I have lost to much money in only ONE SAME DAY by the discontinuation of an engine which was absolutely required for many plugins and soundsets. All these products have been thrown in the bin at the same time because of an impossibility to reinstall them all when I changed the computer a few months later.
Their products are among the best, yes. But the unlock method is the most annoying that exists. This method (online registration) is acceptable for independant products (the products of the Korg Legacy are all independant, the products of IK Multimedia are all independant, etc.) but it is an amazing risky bet when thinking of the future concerning an engine and all the products which needs this engine! The engine may be free... arf, arf... the hundreds of products which require this engine are not free at all, and often they are quite expensive! And all will be obsolete and definitively unusable the same day!
Of course I feel exactly the same about UVI and their workstation and all the products which need it to work... An engine which is free, yes, but requires an amazingly constraining method of online registration, and if it was not enough... not only an engine but also a ridiculously complex and constraining method of online registration, and the risky bet to see one day ALL the dependant products die at the same time whatever the price they have cost!
The only Native Instruments product that I use (and I love it) is FM8, because even if like Korg Legacy or IK Multimedia (and so on) products which use the same online method of registration... it doesn't require any external engine.
The simultaneous constraint of online registration AND (considered as logical operator) external engine is an enormous risky bet which doesn't exist at all with U-He products, TAL products, Alchemy products, Cakewalk products, Korg products, , IK products, LinPlug products, AAS products, Lennar products, PPG products, Waldorf products, Fxpansion products, etc.
This is a real shame because it is obvious that Native Instruments products are among the best. But I always remember the impression I have got when Kore player has been discontinued: a basket full of many eggs which suddenly brakes and falls heavily down... with the immediate, total and definitive destruction of all the eggs which were in it! Suddenly all is definitively lost: the basket but also all the eggs (and some were very expensive) which were in this basket.
Nevermore as said the Raven of Edgar Allan Poe!
If Monark (or any other) was an independant product without any external engine, sure I'd be a customer, because it is indisputably of the most extreme quality.
And what I like in TAL or U-He or (etc.) products is that they don't submit their customer to an insane sword of Damocles hung over their head.
About Diva: +1 of course. The only point which retained me to insert it in my little comparison list about Minimoog emulations was in fact that Diva is very, very CPU demanding compared to the others that I have cited.
Last edited by BlackWinny on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Nor with Minimoog V and Minimonsta... it's not bad for free, but frankly, it can't compete with the payware emus. Especially the filter is pretty bad.EvilDragon wrote:But not with Monark and not with DIVA.BlackWinny wrote:they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta)
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- KVRist
- 269 posts since 12 Nov, 2011
I'm rather sceptical whether Patrick Kunz is going to want to purchase a profoundly expensive synth like a JP8 or Synthex, in order to emulate it. Now if he could get an MS-80 for a reasonable price perhaps.
I find it hard to think of another synth with the same appeal as the Juno 60 or the SH101. Perhaps making an improved version of NoiseMaker is the way forward?
Of course the elephant in the room is the 303. I don't think there's anyone claiming that they have an indistinguishable emulation of the 303, but I also think that no developer wants the PR headache of trying to make an indistinguishable version of such a mythologised synth. It attracts obsessives who'd probably bash it for being only a 99.9% emulation.
Edit: wrote 106 instead of 60.
I find it hard to think of another synth with the same appeal as the Juno 60 or the SH101. Perhaps making an improved version of NoiseMaker is the way forward?
Of course the elephant in the room is the 303. I don't think there's anyone claiming that they have an indistinguishable emulation of the 303, but I also think that no developer wants the PR headache of trying to make an indistinguishable version of such a mythologised synth. It attracts obsessives who'd probably bash it for being only a 99.9% emulation.
Edit: wrote 106 instead of 60.
Last edited by knowix on Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Funkybot's Evil Twin Funkybot's Evil Twin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116627
- KVRAF
- 11560 posts since 16 Aug, 2006
Did you mean MS-20 or CS-80? I'm not familiar with an MS-80.knowix wrote:I'm rather sceptical whether Patrick Kunz is going to want to purchase a profoundly expensive synth like a JP8 or Synthex, in order to emulate it. Now if he could get an MS-80 for a reasonable price perhaps.
I'm sure whatever Patrick does next will be interesting. I'd personally love to see someone nail a Prophet-5 since I don't know of any spot-on 64 bit versions, but that's just me.
- KVRAF
- 23115 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
What a wall of text O.o; tl;dr
Just to brush onto one thing you mentioned - discontinuation of a product doesn't magically make it broken and not working. Kore is still alive and well and works, just ask aMAZEd. If you're on Mac, tough luck - Apple will definitely make your life more bitter and at some point Kore will just stop working after a new OSX update. That won't happen nearly as fast on Windows.
Just to brush onto one thing you mentioned - discontinuation of a product doesn't magically make it broken and not working. Kore is still alive and well and works, just ask aMAZEd. If you're on Mac, tough luck - Apple will definitely make your life more bitter and at some point Kore will just stop working after a new OSX update. That won't happen nearly as fast on Windows.
- KVRAF
- 4534 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
I totally agree. All the essential is done in NoiseMaker, but some aspects need upgrades and improvements, and it should be a wonderful plan for months of neat work and with the result of one of the major virtual instruments at the league of some among those done by Urs.chk071 wrote:Yes please!knowix wrote:Perhaps making an improved version of NoiseMaker is the way forward?
Further more... many people (including me and certainly all here) claim, beg for this update for nearly two years.
We should write a petition to send to Patrick !
I said No!_____________________WE SAY YEEESSSSS!!!!!
Last edited by BlackWinny on Tue May 13, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 269 posts since 12 Nov, 2011
Oh, I meant the MKS-80 Super Jupiter.Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Did you mean MS-20 or CS-80? I'm not familiar with an MS-80.
I'm sure whatever Patrick does next will be interesting. I'd personally love to see someone nail a Prophet-5 since I don't know of any spot-on 64 bit versions, but that's just me.
Funny that you mention the Prophet 5. I was just about to say that a more accurate emulation of the Pro One (with polyphony) would be a big deal. And a Pro One isn't a horribly expensive investment.
Anyway, I imagine that the follow up to BassLine-101 is already in the works.