The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread
- KVRAF
- 2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013
I know what warping is, and I'm thinking that this issue might not be in the manual, but I'll check. But with just a little googling around I'm finding several people claiming that the "complex pro" warping mode creates artifacts even at the original tempo: https://www.ableton.com/answers/what-s- ... ull-tracks
- KVRAF
- 2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013
^Ok. Well I'm looking in the manual now and it seems maybe "auto-warp" is what I've heard people saying needs to be turned off. Does this automatically stretch files that you import or something?
- KVRist
- 320 posts since 21 Mar, 2010 from Manchester UK
They were both loops dragged out in the timeline, so they would be the normal stretch.Echoes in the Attic wrote:Without knowing what warping method is being used, it doesn't mean much. If the high quality time stretch is on, which it might be by default, then that can eat up cpu.spinlud wrote:I can't believe that he is getting 60-75% of cpu in ableton with only 40 tracks without any vst...lesha wrote:How about VSTs?kennyda wrote:I just did a test running 40 audio tracks in Live and Bitwig Studio. In Live my computer was running at about 60-75% CPU, and in Bitwig it was about 25-50%, repeated test, same sort of result. These sort of tests do vary a lot but I did repeat it once and checked nothing else was running except routine background stuff so I think it's reasonably useful.
Studio One, OS X 10.0, M-Audio Oxygen 25 keyboard.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
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- KVRAF
- 2982 posts since 9 Dec, 2008
And I take back what I said before about devs not being so stupid with their default choices. It seems that for some people at least the default choice in Live is the 'fade in samples' or whatever it's called.
Always gets noobs posting on the Ableton forum saying 'why doesn't my kick sound the same as the preview?'.
Always gets noobs posting on the Ableton forum saying 'why doesn't my kick sound the same as the preview?'.
- KVRAF
- 2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013
I would think that warping should be left out of a scientific comparison. It's kind of like using the included devices instead of the same vst on both daws. If, for example, Live's default warping is higher quality than Bitwig's, It doesn't mean much to say that bitwig is using less cpu.kennyda wrote:They were both loops dragged out in the timeline, so they would be the normal stretch.
- KVRist
- 320 posts since 21 Mar, 2010 from Manchester UK
Ok I'll try without warping later.
I just tried a test, not exactly like-for-like, but close. I loaded 8 tracks in each DAW, with a Simpler in Live and a Sampler in Bitwig Studio, each playing a percussion sample, and stuck a Reverberate and an Apqualizr at the end. This time I just read the overall CPU on the Mac. Both came out about the same (about 50%).
This time I set the buffer the same in both DAWs, as I think it was lower in BS last time.
I just tried a test, not exactly like-for-like, but close. I loaded 8 tracks in each DAW, with a Simpler in Live and a Sampler in Bitwig Studio, each playing a percussion sample, and stuck a Reverberate and an Apqualizr at the end. This time I just read the overall CPU on the Mac. Both came out about the same (about 50%).
This time I set the buffer the same in both DAWs, as I think it was lower in BS last time.
Studio One, OS X 10.0, M-Audio Oxygen 25 keyboard.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
- KVRist
- 320 posts since 21 Mar, 2010 from Manchester UK
Just did one with 30 tracks, unwarped, in both DAWS. Both played fine and both used about the same CPU, around 28-35% total CPU use on the Mac.
So overall, I can't really say there is any definite difference at the moment.
So overall, I can't really say there is any definite difference at the moment.
Studio One, OS X 10.0, M-Audio Oxygen 25 keyboard.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
- KVRist
- 320 posts since 21 Mar, 2010 from Manchester UK
Maybe, but then again most audio I have is looped. Ok, so I'm not comparing like with like, but I'm comparing how the DAW gets the job done. I'll try and do both anyway, but I don't have a third party sample player.Ogopogo wrote:I would think that warping should be left out of a scientific comparison.
Studio One, OS X 10.0, M-Audio Oxygen 25 keyboard.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
- KVRAF
- 4636 posts since 21 Jan, 2008 from oO
would also be interesting how your computer specs are and if it is configured properly. You can for exampel run a check with DSP latency checker to see if your driver configuration etc are proper. If they are not, that would be interesting to see wich DAW handles that better also.
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
A super system runs in idle between 30 and 100, a good system at least below 200, and has a streight green line..
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
A super system runs in idle between 30 and 100, a good system at least below 200, and has a streight green line..
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- KVRist
- 224 posts since 23 Aug, 2011
Unfortunately the DPC latency checker doesn't support Windows 8 yet, and reports incorrect values. Although there isn't really a need to check DPC latency here, just make sure that you're using the same audio driver with the same buffer values and the results will be accurate enough.
- KVRAF
- 2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013
I see your point Kenny about using the warping.
When we were talking about performance before one thing that came up was that there might be extra code in the beta, for debugging or something, that could mean the release version would run differently. If that's still likely it might be better to just hold off on the testing for now.
When we were talking about performance before one thing that came up was that there might be extra code in the beta, for debugging or something, that could mean the release version would run differently. If that's still likely it might be better to just hold off on the testing for now.
- KVRist
- 320 posts since 21 Mar, 2010 from Manchester UK
I'm on a Mac, that checker won't work on it.
I just did a test, 10 tracks with Arturia MiniV playing a simple bass line. Both DAWs came out about the same, ie total COMPUTER CPU use about 35-45%.
I just did a test, 10 tracks with Arturia MiniV playing a simple bass line. Both DAWs came out about the same, ie total COMPUTER CPU use about 35-45%.
Studio One, OS X 10.0, M-Audio Oxygen 25 keyboard.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
- KVRist
- 320 posts since 21 Mar, 2010 from Manchester UK
Interesting, could be. I don't want to be responsible for people making their minds up anyway, I think people need to run their own tests. Also they need to bare in mind that you can do the test again and get different results.Ogopogo wrote:I see your point Kenny about using the warping.
When we were talking about performance before one thing that came up was that there might be extra code in the beta, for debugging or something, that could mean the release version would run differently. If that's still likely it might be better to just hold off on the testing for now.
Studio One, OS X 10.0, M-Audio Oxygen 25 keyboard.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
Old websites:
http://www.bitwigtutorials.net Free Bitwig Studio tutorials
http://www.macableton.com Free Ableton Live and Mac tutorials.
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- KVRist
- 224 posts since 23 Aug, 2011
Well at least it's in line with Ableton, that should allow me to run fairly large projects on my i7. We won't really find out what it can do until we all spend a few days making projects with instruments, effects, automation etc.
I'm very curious as to how much CPU the modulation system will use. It's far beyond anything I've ever seen in a DAW, I'm really looking forward to trying it out. I'd imagine that if you go too crazy with the modulation it'll eat a lot of CPU. Can't wait to try it out though!
I'm very curious as to how much CPU the modulation system will use. It's far beyond anything I've ever seen in a DAW, I'm really looking forward to trying it out. I'd imagine that if you go too crazy with the modulation it'll eat a lot of CPU. Can't wait to try it out though!