correct term for sh101 sequencer type?

[mztk]

ah, don't just say "stepsequencer", please..i mean the type that steps on(wards!)
as you enter step, rest, step, etc.

'step sequencer' (it probably IS a REAL stepsequencer..) usually means a
fixed # of steps, like those modular things with a row of 8 or 16 knobs
and gate witches. (it is applied to any non realtime-record sequencer
method, of course). the 101 sets the length of the sequence by the last
stpe or rest entered.(is there one on the SC Pro One as well?)

so what is it called?

[inf0tr8r]

Step sequencer is the correct name. Sorry.

[ghettosynth]

Roland just called it a "sequencer." Earlier variants might have been called "digital sequencers" or "computer controlled sequencers."

[aciddose]

A step sequencer doesn't need a "fixed" number of steps, it only needs a fixed number in total. The SH-101 sequencer is exactly this. Most such sequencers are based upon counters which can be reset at any point by a reset pulse. This is simple to implement, you can just feed the reset pulse from the clock & one of the step outputs to adjust length.

As far as I'm aware it is not a CV/Gate recorder (storing CV + time change occurred) but it is in fact exactly a step sequencer.

If the encoding is a delta encoding (like .mid files) allowing much more free timing it would be more like a CV/Gate recorder.

What defines a "step" sequencer is the fixed time base such as 24ppq or similar.

Really though these terms are not technical terms and do not have strict technical definitions. Unfortunately there is no way to accurately distinguish between whether a sequencer is "step" or not.

"Step" sequencing however usually is a well understood process of setting the values stored in a sequencer by controlling period length while inputting note/rest and other parameters per step.

[samsam]

I used to own an SH and I'd describe its sequencer as a

"stepsequencer"

[deastman]

I would describe a step sequencer as any sequencer which does not capture a real time recording of a performance. Even then, there are some edge cases. But yes, I'd call it a step sequencer.

[tapper mike]

Looking at http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/sh101.php
It states that the sequencer is real time.

[ChamomileShark]

I wouldn't call it a real time sequencer - it does not play back what you play into it - it plays back at a steady tempo defined by the LFO rate.

The CSQ100 can do real time or step time.

So yes, it's a digital step sequencer.

[iDesignSound]

SH-101 style sequencers are triggered and transposed by played notes. Maybe that's what people mean by real time sequencer, that you can actually perform with them rather than just hitting play.

[aciddose]

Well, no.

The keyboard is used to input notes, but you're not actually "playing them". It doesn't record anything about the timing between notes so if you just input a lot of notes you'll get a string of them with no rests.

If you want to input rests or sustains you need to use the additional keys do to so.

It is absolutely a step sequencer. Anyone who has any reason to think it isn't should read the manual. Roland uses the term "step sequencer" in the manual itself!

It reminds me of the way you input notes/rests on the CR8k drum machine. Rather than having a 16 buttons, you have trigger/rest buttons.

Each pattern is 32 steps long and to get a 4/4 kick drum you'd hit "trig, rest, rest, rest" eight times.

The SH101 is similar although I believe there is a way to also enter sustains. I'd need to play with one myself to really understand it for certain. Someone who owns a SH101 can explain the step-by-step of entering a pattern for us perhaps?

Ah you can see here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... SH-101.jpg

The buttons "legato" and "rest".

I'm assuming here so it still needs confirmation, but I'd think you can input sustains by holding the legato button and hitting the same note multiple times. This should also allow pitch-bends through stepped glissando in combination with glide set to "auto".

You have a total of 100 something steps, so you could easily use three steps per 16th with 32 steps total to get two bars.

So, my assumption is the legato button used while sequencing disables the gate/trigger pulse for the next step entered.

Here is an example bass pattern Shy (I think?) did on his MC-202 years back. It contains a glissando slide. I suspect the sequencers are very similar. Last I heard he owned an SH-101 so might be able to fill in the gaps here.

https://soundcloud.com/aciddose/shy-i-think-mc202filter

[mztk]

hehehe..

i'm talking about this step-rest-step-(step-rest-etc.) action/input.
(took me ages to find out/consider the legato entry on the 101 )

you get the same 'step input' entry on drum machines, yamaha sequencers, etc.
then, you get 'row' sequencers as found on eg: modular sytems, with rows of
knobs/faders, that are also usually referred to as 'stepsequencers', with a
fixed # of steps, usually no more than 16/32/64.

the great thing about the 101 sequencer is the clock in. input notes, rests, legato
step-rest-etc. style, and trigger the clock from an external source, such as the rimshot
of drum patterns, so that the triggering rhythm varies from drum pattern to drum pattern
and changes the rhythm of the synth line.

maximum# of notes/events is much higher than a 'row' , length determined by last entered
event.

[ghettosynth]

Well, no.

The keyboard is used to input notes, but you're not actually "playing them". It doesn't record anything about the timing between notes so if you just input a lot of notes you'll get a string of them with no rests.

If you want to input rests or sustains you need to use the additional keys do to so.

This is correct.

It is absolutely a step sequencer. Anyone who has any reason to think it isn't should read the manual. Roland uses the term "step sequencer" in the manual itself!

Not exactly, they call it a digital sequencer that can hold up to 100 steps. It's a pedantic difference, yes, it is a step sequencer, but, if someone is trying to differentiate between the SH-101 style sequencer and the typical modular step sequencer, the digital matters somewhat. That is, the entry of the notes is precise and does not require one to set an analog knob. In the case of the SH101, the keyboard is scanned and the notes cannot be set externally from the cv/gate in. One has to put themselves back in 1983, sequencers as we know them today were not widely available, so, there was not a lot of reason to really distinguish the SH-101 sequencer as a particular type. The synth has a sequencer feature, and it works in a particular way that is part of the selling point of the synth. People didn't really start expecting a consistent behavior from synth based sequencers really until synths were multitimbral and midi was more widespread.

It reminds me of the way you input notes/rests on the CR8k drum machine. Rather than having a 16 buttons, you have trigger/rest buttons.
...
So, my assumption is the legato button used while sequencing disables the gate/trigger pulse for the next step entered.

Legato holds the gate across steps, so, if the EG is in it's sustain state, it's held there. The EG can be set to respond to either gate, or gate+trigger.

Incidentally, I think that the sequencer of the SH-101 is one of its great live features. It's extremely fast for entering a quick riff that, of course, will be quantized to a clock. I found it much easier to get musically interesting riffs on the fly from it in the context of live techno than one can get from an analog step sequencer. The gate+trigger/gate switch and the key transpose then allow you to do a lot with the sequence live.

[aciddose]

Legato holds the gate across steps, so, if the EG is in it's sustain state, it's held there. The EG can be set to respond to either gate, or gate+trigger.

I suspect (as I've done similar sequencers myself on-chip) that when legato isn't used the gate is turned off shortly at the end of a note, just before the next step is triggered.

The "trigger" input to the envelope actually works the same way. Rather than having multiple inputs the gate is chopped... actually in the sh-101 circuit the gate input is inverted, so ground = on, positive = off. The trigger is simply mixed with the inverted gate at the input (220k for each, so the average is taken). This has the effect that a note is delayed by the length of the trigger pulse when you use gate+trig mode. (The pitch isn't delayed, but the attack phase is.)

In the sequencer it is possible they do it exactly the same way and notes are delayed by 1ms or whatever the length of the pulse is. It can be very short as we don't need to actually allow any release to occur, simply to reset the flip-flop state to put the envelope back in the attack stage. So even 10us should work okay although less than that might be an issue due to parasitic capacitance + the 220k impedance at the input.

Regarding whether they call it a step sequencer or not; no, they do not use this term. They do however describe it as a "digital sequencer" as you say, immediately followed by pointing out (paraphrasing) "the sequencer is programmed by entering multiple steps which are equal to the shortest element in the sequence combined with ties and rests."

Actual quote:

"The SH-101 contains a digital sequencer which can store and play up to 100 steps. When you wish to load the notes, divide the longer time values by the shortest time value (Refer to the example shown below)."

"e.g. : 8th = the shortest time value (a step)"

[ghettosynth]

Legato holds the gate across steps, so, if the EG is in it's sustain state, it's held there. The EG can be set to respond to either gate, or gate+trigger.

I suspect (as I've done similar sequencers myself on-chip) that when legato isn't used the gate is turned off shortly at the end of a note, just before the next step is triggered.

I wasn't really making a statement technically about the sequencer, I haven't looked at the schematic in ages, rather, I was talking about its operation from a user perspective. Gate is held with legato on, as you say, broken with it off, and trigger+gate negates the effect of legato. So, in practice, you can record with legato and play with decay and/or release to get different effects and then switch to gate+trigger to completely negate the legato.

Regarding whether they call it a step sequencer or not; no, they do not use this term. They do however describe it as a "digital sequencer" as you say, immediately followed by pointing out (paraphrasing) "the sequencer is programmed by entering multiple steps which are equal to the shortest element in the sequence combined with ties and rests."

Yep, I believe I stated that above, in not so many words. It is a step sequencer, but, it is not an "analog step sequencer." Of course that's a bit of a misnomer for most actual knob controlled step sequencers as they are hybrid, but, it is the distinction. Still, the main thing that I was trying to get across is that the majority of built in sequencers at the time were rather crude and so they were all just called sequencers. Even the ARP 1613 was just called a sequencer. So, the only real distinction is that it was referred to as a digital, or in the case of other roland products, a computer controlled digital sequencer. In the 80s, that language conveyed something a bit different than what it might today. Perhaps a more accurate description today might be "ram based step sequencer" or some such, but that distinction, that it was controlled by a micro with steps stored in ram rather than in analog pots, IS the difference between it and other sequencers of the day. Consequently, I think that, lacking a better qualifier, the word digital is important. It is either a digital sequencer, or a digital step sequencer. Sequencers that store the steps in analog pots are "analog step sequencers" even though most use digital logic to sequence the voltages.

[aciddose]

The gate+trig mode shouldn't negate the legato effect. It just effects a trigger of the envelope when the pitch changes as well as the gate.

The glide on "auto" mode will still function.