Synth appearance

[aciddose]

To chk071 re: ZynAddSubFX

Okay what I mean by "pages" was tabs actually, sorry.

So tabs would help eliminate the windows in one step by adding some very small vertical to the main window, that requires minimal code and I'd even volunteer to do it myself although I suspect someone familiar with the code would be better off to do it and I really need to focus on my own software.

Redesigning the layout to focus on signal flow would again help, at least having a "signal flow" tab to show only a few major controls from each section to simplify automation and so on. This is a lot more effort but code-wise still reasonable.

As far as complete redesigns though, such as what you mention regarding contrast, different controls/widgets (I assume you mean when you say operators?) and arrangement of menus... This is a slightly more difficult and labor-intensive task.

If you're actually interested in seeing this happen though you might consider getting in contact with the authors, people involved in the project (IRC?) or just on a forum about the project. At some point someone might see these comments even here and do something about it without any effort on your part.

The least they could do is implement tabs... assuming the toolkit/etc they used has support for them. In the very least they could say why it isn't quite so easy

What I hate is when I make suggestions like this to a project and go into great detail, then I'm completely ignored. Not even a "**** you buddy, we're ignoring you!", just silence. So I can understand why people are hesitant to go into detail due to potential critique and so on. Still though, it's all about your own interest. Posting a screenshot and saying "this is a GUI that really doesn't agree with me, it's too cluttered and low-contrast and I have a hard time finding my way around without seeing a clear signal-path" is really all you need to do.

I found your original post insightful although a little lacking and possibly a bit insulting, so you just need to watch out for that. As far as we know though the ZynAddSubFX guy is long ago hit by a bus and won't roll over in his grave over this. If people attack you for going into minimal detail about specifically what bugs you, they might be dicks.

[fluffy_little_something]

Sorry, but the vast majority of SE synths can't compete with modern proprietary synths. Some developers have nice GUI's for their SE synths, but most don't. Probably because they aren't designers and in many cases they don't have the money to hire a pro.

Edited my post above to give a good example.
It is not SE fault, but devs fault. Don't blame SE.

I didn't blame SE. Most SE developers can't program, so they use other people's modules. So things get somewhat repetitive over the years...

[chk071]

@ aciddose: Ok fair enough. Sorry it got a bit heated earlier, not my style either usually. Regarding ZynAddSubFx: I think the problems with the GUI are well known, but the amount of people working on it (the original dev doesn't work on it anymore, there's a few dev's which picked up the work, and there is one person who works on the VST port, which is a bit buggy too afaik, especially the GUI seems to have made problems, and they had a dummy window for that even...) isn't really high, so i doubt that anyone will be working, or willing to improve the GUI. It's a massive task anyway probably, considering the complexitiy of the synth and the operators. But, as i said, it's not in my interest anyway. The market is pretty saturated, there's a lot of free stuff, a lot of quality payware, so why bother with a synth which won't work for me? From a users point of view that is.

There have been attempts to make a better GUI anyway, but that didn't quite work out IMO. There's also a port, Yoshimi, but i never figured out what it is, what it does, or what the benefit is. And Linux only anyway.

[Mutant]

As far as we know though the ZynAddSubFX guy is long ago hit by a bus and won't roll over in his grave over this.

Hmm ?
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... 2&sr=posts

[aciddose]

... Xhip too small ...

I get the impression you mean "too small", also fluffy_little_something's comments are quite similar although describe the layout and widget types (same, on a grid... I'm aware of this trust me ) as being the source of the issue.

I'd love to fix both of these issues.

As far as your resolution though, 1280 x 1024... What do you think a solution might be? Is it merely increasing the size of text and adjusting widgets/background to cope with the change?

A different font?

Increasing the size of the complete GUI including all elements?

What is a reasonable size?

I don't have the background source files (photoshop, etc), although resizing the complete GUI should be a minimal investment for me and I'm certain I could recreate it.

As it is there is a ton of stuff on the GUI now, so I find it quite difficult to simplify, rearrange or blow up the text very far.

I do admit the text I've used in the displays is as small as possible. It really couldn't be any smaller without using a pixel-font like in the cs-80 plugin!

Part of the reason I made that choice was I like a small window because I hate a cluttered screen with many windows. I can't stand having multiple plugins open at once most of the time, which is why I prefer the way reaper handles displaying plugin GUIs in an effects list window, one at a time. I also hate abbreviations. "Frequency" is so much better than "Cut" or "Freq" or "FC" or similar. (what is fc? kfc? fried chicken?)

[wagtunes]

... Xhip too small ...

I get the impression you mean "too small", also fluffy_little_something's comments are quite similar although describe the layout and widget types (same, on a grid... I'm aware of this trust me ) as being the source of the issue.

I'd love to fix both of these issues.

As far as your resolution though, 1280 x 1024... What do you think a solution might be? Is it merely increasing the size of text and adjusting widgets/background to cope with the change?

A different font?

Increasing the size of the complete GUI including all elements?

What is a reasonable size?

I don't have the background source files (photoshop, etc), although resizing the complete GUI should be a minimal investment for me and I'm certain I could recreate it.

As it is there is a ton of stuff on the GUI now, so I find it quite difficult to simplify, rearrange or blow up the text very far.

I do admit the text I've used in the displays is as small as possible. It really couldn't be any smaller without using a pixel-font like in the cs-80 plugin!

Part of the reason I made that choice was I like a small window because I hate a cluttered screen with many windows. I can't stand having multiple plugins open at once most of the time, which is why I prefer the way reaper handles displaying plugin GUIs in an effects list window, one at a time. I also hate abbreviations. "Frequency" is so much better than "Cut" or "Freq" or "FC" or similar. (what is fc? kfc? fried chicken?)

I think just increasing the overall size of the GUI should be sufficient, but there is no way for me to tell until I actually see it. But that would be my guess.

Given how much is on one screen, the new size would have to be quite big. I'd say about the same size as something like Wavemapper 2 which takes up about 80% of my screen. Xhip takes up about 50% of my screen. That's a 30% difference which is substantial.

[aciddose]

As far as we know though the ZynAddSubFX guy is long ago hit by a bus and won't roll over in his grave over this.

Hmm ?
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... 2&sr=posts

This was intended as a joke on his behalf. We all know a console hacking neck-beard would never be outside long enough to be hit by a bus.

re: effort invested already toward improving its GUI.

That is a bit surprising... sometimes the issue with open source projects can be a lack of direction and even the wrong direction. It is also an issue of the effort available to be invested and by whom as well as motivation.

I'm not certain why it might be so difficult to port the code, I'm more interested to look now. Although I hardly have time to do so. Would likely take me days to figure out what is going on at all in the source if it is really so difficult to port to windows.

[satYatunes]

So much has been said about ZynAddSubFx. Here is the new GUI. Someone took initiative. As with all open source system, entire group has to show the same interest otherwise it just dies after some time. I don't know the current status of this project. I stopped following:

https://github.com/budislav/ZynAddSubFx ... r_read.svg

IMO, the new GUI is awesome.

The synth is pretty good though. You can listen to the amazing tracks in OSC page:
https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-26-zynaddsubfx

[wagtunes]

So much has been said about ZynAddSubFx. Here is the new GUI. Someone took initiative. As with all open source system, entire group has to show the same interest otherwise it just dies after some time. I don't know the current status of this project. I stopped following:

https://github.com/budislav/ZynAddSubFx ... r_read.svg

IMO, the new GUI is awesome.

The synth is pretty good though. You can listen to the amazing tracks in OSC page:
https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-26-zynaddsubfx

How do we get the version with the new GUI? I'd love to check it out.

[aciddose]

Seems all updated here:
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/

They didn't solve the window issue, but the look is much better.

The code may be even harder to change now though

Also the issue with tabs is of course the main window must be the size of the largest tab.

[chk071]

How do we get the version with the new GUI? I'd love to check it out.

The first time i saw that GUI posted was like 2 or 3 years ago. Edit: Ok, has only been one year ago http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... i#p5765694 If i wanted to post a snippy comment again, i'd say it's obvious for a open source project that it hasn't been finished yet. Diplomatically, i will say instead that it's normal that it hasn't been finished because the guy who does the GUI does it in his spare time, and the development is slow accordingly.

@ aciddose: That's not how ZynAddSubFx looks like when you install it. See for yourself and download it from here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7&t=268277

[satYatunes]

I was following that thread religiously... Being a programmer myself, I know it's very hard and difficult to understand someone else's code yet jackoo ported it to new version of visual studio... if I remember correctly.. it's nearly impossible to get out of zillion windows without rewriting the code from scratch.. plus there are some other roadblocks too... it's totally understandable if the new developer lose interest and move on to other things.. everyone has a patience threshold

Anyway, lets not turn it into ZynAddSubFX thread. Lets get back on topic.. as a graphic designer I am watching this keenly and would like to see people's thoughts on plugin UI..

[arkmabat]

I don't mind too small but I hate it when I have to detach just to see the whole GUI in FLS.

[aciddose]

That's not how ZynAddSubFx looks like when you install it. See for yourself and download it from here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7&t=268277

Ah, that sucks.

I suppose you'd still need to compile it yourself and perhaps there are other issues.

This remains something I'd like to look into myself now. It might be a heck of a time getting the stuff to actually compile though. I haven't been able to get the latest version of visual studio to even install on win7, perhaps win10 will fix this.

I'll look into it and perhaps I'll start a thread in the instruments forum if I research the progress on the new GUI and come up with any useful info.

[satYatunes]

This remains something I'd like to look into myself now. It might be a heck of a time getting the stuff to actually compile though. I haven't been able to get the latest version of visual studio to even install on win7, perhaps win10 will fix this.

I would suggest to contact Jackoo. He ported it to new version of Visual Studio. He went through lot of trouble. You don't have to go through the same nightmare.