Daftest synth plugin press release blurb ever?

[toothnclaw]

Back on topic, is anyone else out there concerned that there is now a drum machine with a soul!?

How the F$#k did they do that??? Maybe it's an approximation?

GOD was the main developer?

Just guessing...


Thanks Urs and aciddose for the explanations, always entertaining to watch a nerd fight - about something I can't even begin to understand... .

[aciddose]

I was motivated to look up what the heck plugin was referred to, looking on the news page I found it.

I can see how they'd say "based on vintage analog routing"... although it makes me think of this:


http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/members/ ... rbuilders/

Whoa... long enough url?


What I can't understand is how you missed this tidbit, whyterabbyt:
"... and analog control."

Okay, so, I'm trying my best to understand what they could've meant by this. ADSRs and LFOs, right? I guess so if going by "analog = subtractive".

Further research is now motivated.

If you look into the "find out more here" link:
"Informative physics based graphic displays with comprehensive info pane."


This one I can't come to grips with. Are they simulating a CRT? Is there anything you could possibly say is "physics based" about a graph? Is it a graph of parabolic trajectory or something?

No.

Oh wait! I get it. It causes the monitor to emit photons that impact your retina. Of course...

"usable and useful FX section"
Well I'd sure hope so. I suppose this amounts to saying "yeh, it got da FX."

I couldn't find anything else though.

[toothnclaw]

"built by producers, for producers"

“too hot”

"modern hyper-compressed sound"

"Multiple stereo width parameters"

"massive super saw or super square sound"



Riiight...!

[fluffy_little_something]

So, I take it this whole 0df filter thingy only matters with resonance? Is there a resonance value from which one can clearly hear the difference? Usually I don't go beyond 15% or so, and that only to add a bit of bite and brightness.

[mdsp]

Regarding that old debate regarding whether the use of the zero-delay term is valid or not, for those interested in the subject and reading the music-dsp mailing-list Andrew Leary recently posted these references:

Szczupak, J. and Mitra, S.K., “Detection, Location and Removal of Delay-free Loops in Digital Filter Configurations,” IEEE Transactions on Acoustics, Speech and Signal Processing, vol. 23, issue 6, pp. 558-562 (1975 December)

Härmä, Aki, “Implementtion of Recursive Filters Having Delay Free Loops,” Proceedings of the 1998 IEEE International Conference on Acoustics, Speech and Signal Processing, vol. 3, pp. 1261 – 1264 (1998 May)

Pirkle, Will, “Resolving Delay-Free Loops in Recursive Filters using the Modified Härmä Method,” paper Number 9194, Audio Engineering Society Convention 137, 2014 October 8

G. Borin, G. De Poli, and D. Rocchesso, “Elimination of delay-free loops in discrete-time models of nonlinear acous-tic systems,” IEEE Trans. on Speech and Audio Processing, vol. 8, no. 5, pp. 597–605, 2000

With 4 references explicitly using the term delay-free loops the oldest dating back to 1975, 3 being IEEE publications and 2 being peer-reviewed journal publications, I think it is safe to talk about delay-free loop removal as a commonly accepted term (in the academic world before being a commercial buzz-word) to describe methods that attempt to solve these kind of implicit (potentially non-linear) equations in the scope of digital filters.

[fluffy_little_something]

Are filters the only area which is hard to authentically reproduce in software, or are there issues in other areas as well, for instance regarding the generation of waveforms or envelopes, for which there is no solution like the 0df for filters, yet?

[chk071]

So, I take it this whole 0df filter thingy only matters with resonance? Is there a resonance value from which one can clearly hear the difference? Usually I don't go beyond 15% or so, and that only to add a bit of bite and brightness.

IMO, there are many non zero delay feedback filters which sound just fine, even with high resonance settings. It's no end of the line solution anyway i guess, as the general characteristic of the filter matters more, and if that doesn't sound right, then zdf won't help either. If you want, you can compare. Charlatan, TAL-Noisemaker (the new filters) and Tyrell N6 all have zdf filters, while Sylenth1 which you own, or Retrologue don't. But then, i find that TAL-Noisemakers non zdf (the first ones in the drop down menu, the ones at the bottom are the zdf ones) sound pretty ok. Charlatan's sound better, but also are a bit more recent.

Synths with non zdf filters which sounds pretty good IMO: Electra2, Largo, Spire (though those could be better), NI Driver (not sure if that is not zdf though).

The way i understand it, zdf is rather the icing on the cake of analog filter behavior emulation.

[Urs]

With 4 references explicitly using the term delay-free loops the oldest dating back to 1975, 3 being IEEE publications and 2 being peer-reviewed journal publications, I think it is safe to talk about delay-free loop removal as a commonly accepted term (in the academic world before being a commercial buzz-word) to describe methods that attempt to solve these kind of implicit (potentially non-linear) equations in the scope of digital filters.

Thanks for those! Hehehe, I'd be happy to adopt "Delay Free Loop" over "Zero Delay Feedback" if that makes it any easier.

Yeah, the problem has been around since, well, longer than me. The solution has been around like forever too. Nevertheless, implementing the solution for a set of non-linear equations for realtime usage is still pretty new.

[fluffy_little_something]

So, I take it this whole 0df filter thingy only matters with resonance? Is there a resonance value from which one can clearly hear the difference? Usually I don't go beyond 15% or so, and that only to add a bit of bite and brightness.

IMO, there are many non zero delay feedback filters which sound just fine, even with high resonance settings. It's no end of the line solution anyway i guess, as the general characteristic of the filter matters more, and if that doesn't sound right, then zdf won't help either. If you want, you can compare. Charlatan, TAL-Noisemaker (the new filters) and Tyrell N6 all have zdf filters, while Sylenth1 which you own, or Retrologue don't. But then, i find that TAL-Noisemakers non zdf (the first ones in the drop down menu, the ones at the bottom are the zdf ones) sound pretty ok. Charlatan's sound better, but also are a bit more recent.

Synths with non zdf filters which sounds pretty good IMO: Electra2, Largo, Spire (though those could be better), NI Driver (not sure if that is not zdf though).

The way i understand it, zdf is rather the icing on the cake of analog filter behavior emulation.

I don't use Noizemaker anymore because 1) it only has 6 voices, 2) its code doesn't seem to be highly optimized. I wish TAL would upgrade that synth and charge for version 2. Its architecture and everything is clearly superior to the U-NO-LX's. Anyway, I remember its sound, but I prefer Sylenth's sound somehow, despite its supposedly inferior filters.

Saurus has 0df filters, so it's safe to assume the much better Electra has them as well. Tone2 never stressed the 0df technology, which is surprising given their marketing lingo

[chk071]

Saurus has 0df filters, so it's safe to assume the much better Electra has them as well.

Not necessarily. I assume that especially Tone2 would mention it if it was so. ElectraX most likely had NO zdf filters either, but still they sounded nice.

Btw, if you want an example of how different zdf filters can sound, check out Dune 2's filters, and Diva's e.g. Very different characteristics, still both zdf.

[Sendy]

Subtle misnomers aren't the result of stupidity. They are just the result of humans being humans and moving forwards without course for a genitalia measuring contest at each development. "Zero delay feedback filter" may or may not be 100% electronics/engineer/genius level correct on all fronts, but it paints a picture that people can understand. You could use one line of technical terms to give a more academically accurate description, but as this is just a VST marketplace, there's no need for that level of accuracy.

If you want stupid blurbs, look no further than Tone2.

[fluffy_little_something]

Please tell me Tone2 didn't published those diagrams

[Sendy]

No, it's a parody, but their diagrams weren't that far off.

[chk071]

[Burillo]

D16 did publish those as well. IIRC MeldaProduction too, lots of em.