external drive for samples in VSTi's, worth it?

[Neon Breath]

Hi guys,

I am coming from Pro Tools and in the Pro Tools world all the old time users always swear and say to use an external drive for the audio & samples, always. Now that I am with Ableton Live, would you suggest me to keep using an external drive for my samples? In a standard set, I most of the time use around 6 or 7 tracks with almost no audio, but alot of VSTi's like Absynth and Alchemy, wich use many samples. And FX plugins. I don't record in or only on very rare occasion, 1 track-instrument at a time. The thing to consider too is that I only have USB ports available, as the FW is already used by my audio interface.

So what's you opinion on this? Should I really bother using an external drive for all my samples? Or at my level it really won't bother? I'm not talking about for backup purposes, but for performance.

Thanks for helping out on this.

[timobrien]

Doesn't matter if its internal or external, but the best
setup for ANY daw is separate drives:

Boot drive = OS, apps and plugins

Secondary drive = sample libraries

Third drive = audio projects and misc. data

The goal of having the audio projects on their own separate drive is to keep all audio stream flowing smoothly without interruption.
The OS and apps will need to do housekeeping chores and the sample libraries may need to stream more data.
You want that flow to the project to be CONTINUOUS and UNINTERRUPTED at ALL times.

[Neon Breath]

Ok thanks for your input. And when you say doesn't matter if its internal or external, but the best setup for ANY daw is separate drives, you don't mean just partitions on an internal drive hmm? And for an external drive, even usb 2 is better than putting my samples on my internal drive? Bit confused, sorry.

[gdev1981]

Ok thanks for your input. And when you say doesn't matter if its internal or external, but the best setup for ANY daw is separate drives, you don't mean just partitions on an internal drive hmm? And for an external drive, even usb 2 is better than putting my samples on my internal drive? Bit confused, sorry.

Hi! The best way in my experience and from a butt-load of research is to have separate internal drives, USB is not as fast as IDE or SATA connections are and external drives are more pricey than internal ones.

In my DAW I have 3 separate internal drives:

1 * 250gb for OS and Apps + some VSTs

1 * 500GB for samples

1 * 500GB for projects

In reality it's actually a bit more complicated than that because I actually have the two 500GB drives partititioned to store different bits on each partition.

Basically what you want is this, large fast drives with the stuff you use most regularly on the inside of the disc (put on first).

You need to think about how your DAW works and what it wants to access the most and simultaneously. If you have separate physical drives (not just partitions) you have more simultaneous reading and writing you can do.

Obviously the more physical discs you have, the more readers and writers you have to do the data stuff and internal drives are faster than external ones.

http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-2198806.php a (very old) topic but sums up the difference between USB2 and IDE (which is not even as fast as SATA II) quite nicely...

Hope this helps,

G

[b4serenity]

So....I have a laptop w/ a 7200 drive. I know I'll have to test this myself to find out for sure but at least in theory would it be better to use just the one drive for everything OR have the recording of the music sent to a USB external drive? And would another external USB drive also be good for samples?

To me, it seems to make sense that even though USB is slower than an internal drive that it could still help speed things along by utilizing 1 or 2 extra USB drives instead of just the one internal drive. I seem to read both points of view here and there on the net...

[Neon Breath]

b4serenity, good question. That's what I am wondering too, cause at the moment I only have an USB port available (FW is used by my audio interface) so for now, I'm wondering if it's a good move to use my external drive via the USB or not bother and simply put my samples on my macbook. Like you said, I'll have to try myself and see...

[gdev1981]

If I were you I might consider upgrading the internal drive instead of getting a USB drive, personally I find that USB interactions on my laptop are even slower than on my PC...

[timobrien]

you don't mean just partitions on an internal drive hmm?

IF you partition the drive, the first time the OS needs to do housekeeping work (loading or writing a file - and it does that a LOT) your drive will stop reading or writing other info, slew across the disk to where ever the other partition is, drop down, do the task, then slew back again.

This mechanical motion is GLACIAL in computer time and will contribute to pops, clicks and even full dropouts. BAD BAD BAD.

2 or 3 drives in any daw. Keep that audio files separate.
(Sample libraries can co-exist on the OS drive, as they are usually loaded once when the patch is chosen, but you want that audio file info NOT INTERRUPTED for ANY reason... 3 drives is always the ideal.)

[Koo'waan]

Forget about "Samples".
Think "Synthesis".

Throw away all the stuff dedicated to them along with the synths based on them

and...

Make Music

[Neon Breath]

Forget about "Samples".
Think "Synthesis".

Well, ok but granular synthesis is sample based, and guess what, it's my number 1 synthesis of choice so nope, wont throw away all my sample and field recorded sounds!

[Koo'waan]

Well, ok but granular synthesis is sample based, and guess what, it's my number 1 synthesis of choice so nope, wont throw away all my sample and field recorded sounds!

"Drone ambient" is my Q.U.E.S.T

so...

Glad to meet you

PS: stunning work

[Neon Breath]

Thanks Koo'waan!

Check your PM's

[Neon Breath]

Ok, so I did a quick test as followed: if some are interested...

-imported 10 audio tracks from my -internal hard drive- and applied a bunch of fx and plugins for each tracks. Hit play... CPU load meter in Ableton around 28-30%.

then,

-imported the same exact 10 audio tracks from my -external FW 400 hard drive- and applied the same bunch of fx and plugins for each tracks as above. Hit play... CPU load meter in Ableton around 28-30%...

Didn't see any difference here for the sample sources FW400 VS internal hard drive.


I did another quick test with a synth I often use:

-use Alchemy in a midi track, with a complex sound made of 4 samples imported from my -internal hard drive- with a 8 voices of polyphony and some plugin fx. Hit 8 keys at the same time, CPU load meter in Ableton around 38-40%...

then,

-use Alchemy in a midi track, with a the same exact sound made of 4 samples imported from my -external FW 400 hard drive- with a 8 voices of polyphony and the same exact plugin fx. Hit 8 keys at the same time, CPU load meter in Ableton around 38-40%...

Again, didn't see any difference. Pretty interesting!! I am not saying here that having another drive for running audio and samples is useless, but obviously for own setup running audio and samples from my hard drive or my FW 400 drive makes no difference. Maybe if I had another INTERNAL 7200RPM hard drive it would, I don't know.

Again, thanks all for you replies in this thread, some great info in here!

Feel free to comment...

[justin3am]

For your test you should have looked disk through-put not CPU usage but unfortunately Ableton doesn't have a disk usage meter. At my previous job I wrote automated tests that stressed the disk I/O of DAWs by recording 64 tracks while simultaneously playing back 64 tracks (and then reduced that track count till the DAW could could complete a 2 hour recording without dropouts). This is where you'll start noticing the benefits of using an external drive or disk round-robin.

[Neon Breath]

At my previous job I wrote automated tests that stressed the disk I/O of DAWs by recording 64 tracks while simultaneously playing back 64 tracks (and then reduced that track count till the DAW could could complete a 2 hour recording without dropouts). This is where you'll start noticing the benefits of using an external drive or disk round-robin.

I see, this is what I thought. Not while having just 6 or 7 tracks playing, with no recording. Another dedicated drive would be appreciated for heavier and stressful sessions I guess.