KVR Audio

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:16 pm

aciddose wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:When using options such as Diva, Monark, TAL BassLine-101 and U-No-LX... now those are options people will fail to tell the difference between analog and plugin synths.

Derailing the thread a little bit here although as if this particular topic requires all that much further discussion anyway...

Those examples I see often attempting to compare the two are not really valid though. You can find a lot of cases where there is absolutely no difference between an analog vs. software subtractive. I don't just mean that you can't tell the difference, I mean there is literally no difference at all!

There are however cases which occur rather often in music when using especially mono/lead sounds, although also in polyphony/chords although less often in which the differences can be obvious.

It depends upon how you choose your tests and it is easy to pick either way: to make the difference obvious, or zero.

It doesn't make sense to use such comparisons as a general guide regarding how closely you can match any particular instrument as the complications involved in reproducing an identical sound in two different analog or two different software synthesizers can be more than 50% simply a process of getting the settings just perfect.

The other of course is about a matching implementation, getting a 12db brass sound with a 24db filter is simply not possible regardless of whether it is analog or software.

Most importantly, it depends upon the particular sound you choose to work with, some being exceedingly difficult to match even with two of the very same synthesizer and of course some being trivial.

Do you claim you would be able to tell the difference in a blind test?

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:17 pm

Yes, if the difference is obvious.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:21 pm

aciddose wrote:Yes, if the difference is obvious.

so like a visual spot the difference contest with a picture of a forest and a picture of the moon?

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:22 pm

Kriminal wrote:
vurt wrote:the real answer is "who gives a shit? if it sounds good use it!"

thats that then, let there be no more on the matter

people ignore my genius all the time.
thats why we cant have nice things.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:23 pm

aciddose wrote:Yes, if the difference is obvious.

Do you study the waveforms visually?

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:25 pm

vurt wrote:
Kriminal wrote:
vurt wrote:the real answer is "who gives a shit? if it sounds good use it!"

thats that then, let there be no more on the matter
people ignore my genitals all the time.
thats why we cant have nice things.

I see

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:26 pm

sadly thats true as well

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:41 pm

Kriminal wrote:Do you study the waveforms visually?

If need be, but that often doesn't help much at all. Spectral analysis is far more useful when you need to be precise, in most cases.

Most cases though you don't need to be precise since you're just trying to figure whether there is anything audible in the example that could only have been produced using analog circuitry.

That sort of thing is glaringly obvious, while the majority of the cases will be a "can't tell."

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:41 pm

vurt wrote:so like a visual spot the difference contest with a picture of a forest and a picture of the moon?

Like a pair of paintings of the sky and a few clouds, one with half the canvas torn away.

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:42 pm

aciddose wrote:Yes, if the difference is obvious.

Ok, lets see if I can get a blind test together for you then.

Nokenoku · Post by **Nokenoku** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:44 pm

DrGonzo wrote:The amount of realism in this thread is overwhelming. I really don't mind a 17 year old downloading all kinds of shit from the internet. Go on - explore the space. But I still think there's loads of wrongs with this thing. FM is again turning their ignorance towards the subject and if the guy really makes money from his music - I don't give a shit if he is 17, retarded or a worshipper of the Mayan calendar. He should pay and getting caught on camera using a pirated version makes him not a very clever guy.

+1
And it's especially bad from FM to repeatedly show off people using warez. It just sends the wrong signal.
I think a magazine like this has the responsibility to support legit software and not be like "It's ok to use cracks." ... especially if people are making money with it.

And >if< the boy actually does not own a license (we don't know that), then in my opinion he should really get some kind of "public punishment" by the media.
I am not even talking about "legal actions" here ... I am talking about, that a magazine like FM should rather be like:
"What an a**hole. Look at this guy ... earning thousands of dollars by using a software he did not pay for. You should not pay for his music either."

As a developer I'd definetly contact him and ask him (politely), what he thinks he's doing and why he did not buy the software.
It might even be possible to talk some sense into those guys and make them publicly apologize.

I personally have to say, I don't really have a problem with younger people using warez. And I don't think it helps to demonize the topic.
(Also I think warez helped the industry in the long run.)

But at some point in time people should start to finally give developers something back. This point in time might be after some years of happily using their products, or when they start to have a steady income ... and definetly if they start earning money with those tools!

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:47 pm

djanthonyw wrote:
aciddose wrote:Yes, if the difference is obvious.
Ok, lets see if I can get a blind test together for you then.

Keep in mind that my reply will very likely be "not obvious, can't tell."

Not only would such a test require an obvious difference, but it must also be a sound which obviously can not be produced using any existing software.

I mean the test you'd need to set up would require a deaf person to be unable to tell the difference, so not so sure why you want to bother.

If you'd like I can supply the sound from the hardware, you can reproduce it and we can see if I can tell the difference.

That won't be "blind" though.

Which hardware do you have available to you? We're talking "blind" in terms of me knowing anything about where A vs. B came from, but not blind as in I have absolutely no information what-so-ever.

I'd need to know which hardware and which software were used to produce the sound. I'd also need to know in which manner it was produced and recorded in order to account for any differences created that way.

Without any information available at all you're pretty well flipping a coin. Again, why bother?

(That makes sense with a large sample size of qualified test subjects, but not on a one-off.)

The only real reason you'd want to do a one-off without providing any information is to be a smart-ass.

If you were genuinely interested in applying my expertise to identify and discuss differences that is another thing, which I suggest you'd probably want to start a special thread in "hardware" and PM me to ask me to join in on.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:50 pm

Phaha. This song is a top hit? Phahaha!

Uedi · Post by **Uedi** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:10 am

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Kriminal wrote:
aciddose wrote:Yes, if the difference is obvious.

Do you study the waveforms visually?

One should know that answer.....

Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Garrix.