Another FM video with cracked Sylenth. ...and Martin Garrix.

[Uedi]

...

[Orbit-50]

.-.



Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the future.




.-.

[ntom]

I think that in the last 7 years we have made piracy less attractive than buying a legit version.

Exceptions are added for Urs. Silly me for forgetting. Typically in my debates on piracy I bring up U-He products as they are prime example of anti-piracy done right.


Speaking of Poirets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nXSX3s976s

[aciddose]

It isn't "the future", it's human nature for thousands of years or who knows how long. Perhaps it is in fact one of the many infallible laws of the universe.

Saying anything else is just plain old nostalgia, which is usually a symptom of poor memory or otherwise ignorance.

Ignorance = "lack of knowledge" not stupidity or no desire to know, just a lack of it.

The future is where the market continues to make corrections until a balance is found. I do not believe that balance is anywhere close to what people infer from the widespread disregard for copyright and the apparent "damage" it causes.

Obviously that balance is not obtrusive copy protection schemes which has finally become evident enough to start making a significant difference. Now we will see if things reflect back in the other direction and companies go out of business, or perhaps things settle down into a reasonably profitable fair market.

Depends upon the setting of the market's resonance control

[Orbit-50]

Totally understood aciddose, and I respect your opinion. The only thing is that it seems like in the past people tried to hide it. The future is showing that they don't care enough to hide it anymore. That's the scary part.


.-.

[aciddose]

Facebook-effect, right?

[Orbit-50]

100%


. -.

[deastman]

Facebook-effect, right?

This is why there needs to be a licensing process before people are allowed to access the Internet.

[kmonkey]

I think that in the last 7 years we have made piracy less attractive than buying a legit version.

First we've made keygens impossible, then we've created delayed checks that no cracker team has ever found and recently we've also introduced a method that turns users of leaked serial numbers into paying customers. All without "calling home" or any other intrusive methods. Plain old serial number, and a lot of out-of-the-box thinking.

The result is, we've seen various videos like the one discussed here. Popular guys using lots of cracks. Whenever a u-he product was visible, it was a legit license. They buy our stuff because they know.

Our next step in anti piracy is thus educating other developers in full depth, i.e. open source our method (which, funnily, doesn't help cracking it)

Yeah and again i am asking myself in what kind of parallel universe you live? I know i know you've said it many times, we all know you but as much as i would love to like this story of yours - even today - at the very 2014 - i am still seeing my "colleagues" use your software which is cracked (obviously since it bothers me and i am mentioning it), they never paid for it, they use it and it's working. And they laugh at me whenever i am trying to start decent conversation about ordering plugins. I think i've reported it to you many times in these threads. For instance i know a person which is using your leading product for over two years. No anything about delayed checks, home calling etc. or whatever super uber copy protection you have in there - it's not working. Obviously not working. I don't know maybe i am missing something but if a guy is playing with your (unpaid) soft instrument without any issues whatsoever in a timeline of over a two year - i am considering he is using your cracked product quite successfully.

So yet again i am not aware are you really incapable of finding your cracked products or these fluffy stories about your unobtrusive copy protection mechanism are just moral marketing or something.

If you are really incapable or don't bother i could investigate which f***** version some of the people i work with run (now for years).

I am still recovering from slap at my face(this has nothing with you or your company). I bought Slate VTM, tried to convince them that they never have a chance to play with marvelous tape plugin, until they invest in product and copy protection yet some of these guys are working with cracked satin. WTF??? Reality check??

Anyway i do agree that it's the point of education and my opinion about these pricks which earn money with cracked software (these so called edm producers) - every god damn developer should sue them. End of story.

[aciddose]

The key is how happy are paying customers, and has that lead to more or less sales?

We know obtrusive copy protection has a significant impact, but only if the copy protection is unbreakable. So far such a thing doesn't exist.

More importantly, we know there will be deadbeats and non-customers who will still take interest in the product, just not participate in any form of support. It is possible to attempt to compel them but if they are unwilling it becomes us vs. them which is in fact detrimental, especially so once you consider the effect on customer satisfaction.

I have two points of anecdotal evidence here:

• I have never seen someone complain about a serial or light-weight keyfile protection (same thing, different format)
• I have seen people outed for using unlicensed copies a surprising number of times

So it comes down to what is more beneficial to the developer? Should you be on the same side with your customers, or waging war against them?

Time and market corrections will answer that.

[chaosWyrM]

I am aware of this, and while maybe some pirates MAY take that into consideration, most will not.
Baring that in mind, as I was saying, it's better for the developer - big or small - to try to continue to encourage customer loyalty, because using restrictive methods to undermine your actual legitimate customers doesn't do anything but harm your customers and make piracy look that much more attractive.

I think that in the last 7 years we have made piracy less attractive than buying a legit version.

First we've made keygens impossible, then we've created delayed checks that no cracker team has ever found and recently we've also introduced a method that turns users of leaked serial numbers into paying customers. All without "calling home" or any other intrusive methods. Plain old serial number, and a lot of out-of-the-box thinking.

The result is, we've seen various videos like the one discussed here. Popular guys using lots of cracks. Whenever a u-he product was visible, it was a legit license. They buy our stuff because they know.

Our next step in anti piracy is thus educating other developers in full depth, i.e. open source our method (which, funnily, doesn't help cracking it)

i dont generally comment in threads like this, i dont see the point and i dont have a dog in the fight. that being said...ive seen this kind of sentiment a few times now and i have to ask: do you actually believe that? or is this some kind of social engineering attempt? because if you do really believe what you wrote there...i hate to break it you, but u-he plugs are as easy as any to get and use with no problems. i know at least 10 people using them, probably more. sorry, but its true.

no offense, but microsoft cant effectively cp windows...how do you expect to effectively cp anything?

it all comes down to making the legit product more appealing than the not legit one. look at whats happening to the film industry. the ease and security of paying a reasonable price to stream from netflix (or wherever) is drastically bringing down the piracy of movies. sure, people still do it, but not on the same scale as a few years ago. theyve figured out how to make people not want to pirate...and arent really doing anything anymore to try to stop them from doing it.

you cant force a product into a market, but you can create a market for a product. copy protection has since its inception been approached from entirely the wrong direction. you cant protect it...it isnt possible, but you can make it less desirable to pirate than it is to own a legit copy.

[Urs]

some of these guys are working with cracked satin. WTF??? Reality check??

Yeah, we forgot something in 1.0 on Windows. It's a Windows only release and each instance clogs up 60MB or RAM usage. We fixed both in 1.1, which is firstly not cracked, and uses only 12MB per instance. Also, tape speeds, hiss auto mute, a crash bug in the grouping system.

I'm not worried about it. They get a look, but they're using a buggy 1.0 version.

You should also take a note of the revision number of the Zebra's your friends are using. I bet that version doesn't even have a revision number - or they've never finished more than 2 songs with it. Has any of your friends ever finished a song where any Zebra plays more than 8 different notes? Do they create their own presets or do they just browse their 3-5 favourite patches and that's it?

Thing is, I don't believe your friends are actual users. I think they just brag about stuff but never do any proper work. How else would you describe the galore of postings in warez forums that moan about black spots, melting GUIs, expired demos and suddenly put back demo limitations? Do you think we post those ourselves? And then there's always the flock of idiots in denial who just collect but never use.

Or, they use a leaked serial that we're not aware of. If you could PM us the name that their Zebras are registered to, we'll happily blacklist that name for future updates.

[chaosWyrM]

on a side note...you know who people dont pirate from? hg fortune.

why? because theres no point in doing so. he gives his stuff away in "lite" versions...not demos, but fully functioning vsts that are useful and excellent. if you really like it and want a more powerful version, you can buy one. and if you wait long enough...hell give you the full version for free anyway.

in the circles i run in, hg plugs are better suited than u-he ones are, everyone i know has hg stuff...and i cant recall ever seeing a pirate version. not everyone i know has a u-he plug, but almost all the ones that do...didnt pay for it.

for whatever all thats worth.

[Urs]

i hate to break it you, but u-he plugs are as easy as any to get and use with no problems.

The current lineup hasn't been cracked. As I posted before, if things has bugs then we don't bother to deal with things. The most current crack of our stuff are the x-mas 2012 beta versions, which are not optimised well and buggy as hell. No real release version has been cracked in ages.

Part of our strategy is to improve the stuff over time. We need cracks in order to build better protection. That's why we do public betas. Somehow the crackers think that these make sense to crack. And then they apply the same crack on teh release versions, which has a stronger protection #fail

We also sometimes need people to think that stuff works. When we updated our product range in April, we kept the leaked serials from DOA alive - for a while. Those versions blacklist them shortly before x-mas for instance. It's a feast for us.

Thing is, we can *prove* that our stuff works, and I recently did in a thread that got derailed by trolls. We can even measure the conversion rate with Google Analytics.

However, social engineering is certainly part of our strategy. We want more developers to hop onto it.

[Urs]

on a side note...you know who people dont pirate from? hg fortune.

True, no crack since 2012. But about 20 between 2006 and 2012, according to a quick search on a certain forum.