Windows 10 - It's Free. It's Easy. No Worries.

[aciddose]

Well,

Once again, if the VST/AU market is 50/50...

Says who?

I wonder too.

Depending upon the product, plugin sales are associated with downloads (after purchase, the product is downloaded in the format of) that tend to favor OSX. Which product and product type determine the strength of the bias although the bias exists in all cases I've seen.

Which sales numbers have you seen?

[Frantz]

Windows 10 - It's Invasive. It could introduce problems with your DAW. Do Worry.

You can remove the Windows 10 upgrade notification app by running this from the command line:

WUSA /UNINSTALL /KB:3035583

The change will take effect after you reboot. Of course, MS may reinstall patch KB3035583. If so, you can remove it again or figure out another way to block it.

[arkmabat]

For games, power point, all sort of tasks low latency and a good quality, easy to use interface is critical!

ASIO is 100% in conflict with the goal of providing this sort of service to these applications. They couldn't get the wide support and reliability of an interface provided directly by the OS by using ASIO which is why it isn't used in these cases and never will be.

ASIO is a crap interface for a very small niche and I'll be happy to see it completely replaced one day.

"If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would've said faster horses."

Go on using your ASIO horse-driven carriage if you like, nobody is going to stop you. Just don't argue with the fact that a replacement for it is long overdue.

This is why one of the WinXP tweaks was to put priority to "background services" if I remember right. Most people want to watch movies, not record with zero latency.

[aciddose]

An awful lot of people will notice audio latency like 200ms while they watch a movie on their laptop though, which is why low latency audio as well as latency tracking (for video sync via additional frame buffering) is actually just as important here as in the case of audio production.

For gaming this is even more critical. It isn't possible to simply add additional buffering to sync to the audio, you must ensure the latency for both audio and video is minimal. People do notice the 200ms delay between pressing a button and hearing the sound, a good aim is less than 30ms and ideally 15ms or so.

As for low latency recording, VOIP and communications such as via skype, facebook and so on come to mind. Video recording (with accurately synced audio track) is also important for all the people producing youtube clips or throwing up nonsense on facebook, twitter and all that other crap.

[arkmabat]

Skype would be so much better with asio. Good points.

[fmr]

Windows 10 - It's Invasive. It could introduce problems with your DAW. Do Worry.

Invasive in what sense? What kind of problems? What do you mean by that?

You should be more specific before launching alarmistic warnings. Did you experience something? Did someone? Because I am using Windos 10 since the day one it was available to Insiders, and never noticed my DAWs being "invaded" by anything.

Now that Microsoft is offering the software, I see some people desperate to find something to make it appear bad, nevertheless.

[fmr]

An awful lot of people will notice audio latency like 200ms while they watch a movie on their laptop though, which is why low latency audio as well as latency tracking (for video sync via additional frame buffering) is actually just as important here as in the case of audio production.

For gaming this is even more critical. It isn't possible to simply add additional buffering to sync to the audio, you must ensure the latency for both audio and video is minimal. People do notice the 200ms delay between pressing a button and hearing the sound, a good aim is less than 30ms and ideally 15ms or so.

As for low latency recording, VOIP and communications such as via skype, facebook and so on come to mind. Video recording (with accurately synced audio track) is also important for all the people producing youtube clips or throwing up nonsense on facebook, twitter and all that other crap.

Nothing of the above has anything to do with ASIO whatsoever (Or WDM, for that matter)

Maybe the people that have all those requests regarding Skype, You Tube and Facebook should go buy iPads or some ultra-expensive crap of the kind, and be happy. Crap for crap

Regarding games, Windows is, by a large margin, the biggest platform, so, your remarks didn't seem to hurt the platform so far. And the "superior" OS X model didn't seem to get them any advantage in that field

[aciddose]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[fmr]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

It seems you have no idea what YOU are talking about either

Anyway, enough of your ASIOphobia. I think it's time to go back to the subject of this thread, which is "Windows 10".

Did anyone already got the final version? It should be available by now. I confess I didn't have the time yesterday to try to download it. But since I am running release 10240, I don't expect nothing different, really.

[Burillo]

Nothing of the above has anything to do with ASIO whatsoever (Or WDM, for that matter)

how so?

Maybe the people that have all those requests regarding Skype, You Tube and Facebook should go buy iPads or some ultra-expensive crap of the kind, and be happy. Crap for crap

and most of them will, however, one doesn't preclude the other. there's still no Skype video conferencing on mobile devices (even regular conferencing only works if other party initiates it from desktop client), and latency in Skype is sometimes atrocious. yes, some of it is due to network latency, but if the rest of it can be shaved off by a proper audio stack, why the hell not?!

Regarding games, Windows is, by a large margin, the biggest platform, so, your remarks didn't seem to hurt the platform so far. And the "superior" OS X model didn't seem to get them any advantage in that field

just because it's "good as it is" doesn't mean it can't be greatly improved. you'd be surprised how much avid gamers spend lowering the overall latency of their system, sound included.

[t3toooo]

I'm using and working on the Win 10 10049 technical preview build since some months (didn't bother to update to the current previews) and for me the cpu utilization is remarkable better than in Win 7=more balanced,more "fluid".

It seems Microsoft already improved low latency,i skipped Win 8 so i can't compare it.


I use the pin to library,the shortcuts for folders a lot.
Seemingly there are little things,improvements for me in Win 10 but for workflow and performance it is rocking.

Had no problems with automatically installed graphics drivers and not a single problem at all.

Only thing i wish would be an license system overhaul.
For example,i would like to install several different OS partitions,one for testing plugins but one need a different key for each license.

Upgrading to the free Win 10 is also somehow bothersome,first you need to upgrade via Windows update the existing Win 7/8 partition then Microsoft register and tie the key to your motherboard.
After that it is possible to create a clean install.

[Jace-BeOS]

That's why you have a mouse with one button instead of 2, that's why you have Firewire instead of USB, and that's why for the audio system you have CoreAudio instead of ASIO. Not to mention AU and all that.

You sound kind of ... unawares.

Apple was first to eliminate legacy hardware interfaces and support USB. They pushed the standard. They've eliminated FireWire and kept USB alongside the new thunderbolt interface. Apple mice, while shitty, have secondary mouse button functionality and have had as such for many years.

ASIO is irrelevant on Mac OS X. There's no reason for it to be there. CoreAudio makes it irrelevant. ASIO exists because it was a workaround for Windows' earlier and lame audio system. It is only relevant to Windows.

[aciddose]

Anyway, enough of your ASIOphobia.

Oh I see what you were talking about.

No, of course it has nothing to do with ASIO. That is because ASIO is absolutely useless in these situations, it doesn't have the capability to provide a solution. It is a niche solution, poorly thought out and long overdue to be replaced by a proper audio interface in Windows capable of low latency.

By providing the same capabilities of ASIO and at the same time being a well thought out standard not designed to fill only a niche any such new audio interface in Windows will make ASIO completely obsolete and useless for any purpose, including the niche it now occupies.

ASIO's days are numbered.

This notice brought to you by TEC Officer Max Walker.

[fmr]

Regarding games, Windows is, by a large margin, the biggest platform, so, your remarks didn't seem to hurt the platform so far. And the "superior" OS X model didn't seem to get them any advantage in that field

just because it's "good as it is" doesn't mean it can't be greatly improved. you'd be surprised how much avid gamers spend lowering the overall latency of their system, sound included.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm totally in favour of improvements in the field of multimédia, and I also think that Microsoft can do better than what's there.

HOWEVER, and this is a big "but", I sincerely hope music and áudio remain outsider of that business, just because:
a) I don't trust them to take care of such a specialized field, with such specialized needs.
b) Right now, if we have problems with ASIO drivers, there is only one solely responsible entity - the manufacturer. They have the responsibility to solve them. With a model where the OS authros sare responsibilities, it's easy for the manufacturers toi endorse the blase (and therefore the responsibility) to those. I see that all the time in OS X.
c) In the long run, corporation tend to loose interest in what doesn't bring them revenue. After the first "boom" of anthisiasm, things get colder, and slowly fade away. That's what hapened in OS X with AU and Core MIDI (Core MIDI now is just a joke - it basically does nothing. And it was supposed to allow definitions of external devices, patch lists, etc.)

S, if this is the scenario with Apple (which is always pretending to be commited with music - they always Forget the word "business" after music ) imagine what will be the scenario with Microsoft and Windows.

So, lets Microsoft do what they do well (an operating system that maintains a very reasonable backwards compatibility, while being polished and modern) and keep the specialized things for the specialists.

[andrew71]

ASIO's days are numbered.

This notice brought to you by TEC Officer Max Walker.

I'm still more concerned about Firewire support...