KVR Audio

metamorphosis · Post by **metamorphosis** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:59 pm

My biggest beef is they can't seem to ditch metro - there's still two control panels - which is insane.
And frankly tiles add nothing worthwhile to Start menu.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:05 pm

Ayorinde wrote:Me too. Ugliest OS on the planet. Clunky. Restricted tweakability

You prefer Win 8 ?

ganym3d · Post by **ganym3d** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:20 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:Another reason to stay with XP.

Agreed... But most of the new software runs only on Win 7 or higher (Like Ableton Live, Traktor, Cubase and more)...

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:27 am

Numanoid wrote:
Ayorinde wrote:Me too. Ugliest OS on the planet. Clunky. Restricted tweakability
You prefer Win 8 ?

Win 7

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:26 am

metamorphosis wrote:My biggest beef is they can't seem to ditch metro - there's still two control panels - which is insane.
And frankly tiles add nothing worthwhile to Start menu.

The "control panel" is a somewhat obsolete solution that has its roots in the very first versions of Windows and was in near its current design during 3. That said it would be nice if they'd actually design something to replace it and stick to that rather than radically changing things with every version.

The issue with the start menu is once again it is a mostly obsolete solution from Win95. Text doesn't mix well with oversize icons because the ratio icon vs. text is too far from 1/1. The icon takes up most space and the text is tiny in comparison.

Over-sizing the text to match the icon means you have far less space available for the text. Text is of course left-to-right in Latin and many other systems are adaptable to left-to-right or right-to-left.

The tiles are an attempt to solve this issue by arranging the table in a grid rather than a spread-sheet-like format.

This is absolutely critical to cope with radically increasing resolutions. The days of 90 DPI are long gone and we may start seeing 300 DPI or more, making the icons WAY TOO SMALL to contain any useful detail.

The decision to adopt monochromatic (one) or dichromatic (two) colors was a solution to make the appearance compatible with themes and features such as high-contrast and other similar accessibility functions.

If you think you can design something better feel free, although it is a lot more complex issue than just sticking with Win95.

I still use Win7 configured in the same way Win95 was as this is ideal for me. My monitor is currently approximately 112 DPI. At 300 DPI the text would become unreadable and the icons would lack detail. Win7's taskbar and startmenu aren't adaptable to high DPI displays and although it is recommended to provide at least 256 pixel icons, many applications do not. This means as DPI is increased there are limits to how much you can adapt to that change. If you maintained the layout exactly as-is and scaled everything by approximately 3x, I believe this would require 48 px icons which do not exist.

The nearest would be 32 or 64, which would lead to a text vs. icon ratio issue. It would be possible to over-size the text to 64 (4x) although you'd lose 25% of the area available for text. You could under-size the text to 32 (2x) and almost all applications contain a 32 px icon but the text would be 25% smaller than you'd expect which is likely too small and difficult to read.

The tile solution goes with the "under-size everything" option. The under-sized icon is placed in the middle of a tile (approximately 1/3rd) with labels at the bottom of the tile and other stuff at the top. For 128 px tile, 1/3rd = 42 + 2/3 px. This allows a 32 px icon with a 5 px margin. 1/3rd below is available for the text, so you have 42 x 128 available. This is enough for two lines of a reasonable large point font with a small margin. The top has another identical space providing for plenty of margin.

Most tiles I've seen are laid out with over-size icons sometimes off-center or additional text.

It really doesn't bother me because I never use the start-menu. I use the menu just like a file cabinet. The drawer is opened only to access very rarely used items which are neatly categorized.

I've been using "tiles" since win95 via explorer.

Skorpius · Post by **Skorpius** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:28 am

incubus wrote:I hate windows 10, but there isn't anything I can do about it.

You're wrong. You can do a lot:

https://reactos.org/

Gribs · Post by **Gribs** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:43 am

Regnas wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:I wish Linux were easy enough for me to handle.
It's really not that hard.... The big issue is that the "good" apps just doesn't exist for Linux............

What? I guess that depends on what sort of apps you want. If you want a box for programming and numerical methods then Linux is your friend.

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:43 pm

Bitwig, Reaper, Ardour/Mixbuss, and qtractor, are on my 'good' list of linux daws
U-he, discoDSP, PianoteQ and a dozen other native linux vsts are on my
'good' plugin list (not to mention dozens more commercial windows based plugins used with wine)
Rakarrack, Calf Plugin Suite, and Guitarix are on my 'good' effects list...
Bliss and Hydrogen are on my 'good' sample-use list, and there isn't enough
daylight/LED in a day to use a fraction of those at a high level.
And many other linux tools exist that are preferred by smarter
and more productive people than I. I'll test win10 with a barge-pole,
and test linux with a computer.
Cheers

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:48 pm

Gribs wrote:
Regnas wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:I wish Linux were easy enough for me to handle.
It's really not that hard.... The big issue is that the "good" apps just doesn't exist for Linux............
What? I guess that depends on what sort of apps you want. If you want a box for programming and numerical methods then Linux is your friend.

Bitwig works like a dream on Ubuntu, feels like I am using it on Windows

paulbreeze · Post by **paulbreeze** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:57 pm

And what VST(i)-s do you use? And how?

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:00 pm

paulbreeze wrote:And what VST(i)-s do you use? And how?

Don't think VST's load up in Ubuntu by default, but Beatzille works fine, and also Bitwig comes with so many fine inbuilt plugs.

It's like a sandbox system, like Reason, before the RE's

paulbreeze · Post by **paulbreeze** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:25 pm

I know... My u-he plugins run fine. But that's all. I wish Bitwig would include some kind of wine vsti bridge by default.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:52 pm

Looks like it is goodbye Windows 8 for me, upgrading the laptop I had that running on to Win 10 now.

Looking good so far 90% downloaded, but I know from precious experience that alot can screw up, hope it works out

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:18 pm

Numanoid wrote:Looks like it is goodbye Windows 8 for me, upgrading the laptop I had that running on to Win 10 now.

Looking good so far 90% downloaded, but I know from precious experience that alot can screw up, hope it works out

Hope you enjoy better luck than me - I had to revert to Win7.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:21 pm

metamorphosis wrote:My biggest beef is they can't seem to ditch metro - there's still two control panels

Better to have two than none

Windows 10 installs automatically during Windows 7 or 8 updates