[MAJOR] Automation resolution in eXT1.4.1 - A bug or intention?

[DanielKonopka]

Hello to everyone!

So, I have faced a problem with automation resolution.
To reproduce it:

1. Get MCompressor from MeldaProductions.

2. Create a new blank eXT project.

3. Add just the Sequencer component.

4. Add a new envelope track in the Sequencer,
preferably shaped to be a linear fade.

5. Right-click the first MIDI track and select
Output -> Add -> MCompressor

6. Click on the first Audio track in the Sequencer
and click that small button in the main mixer with "1" on it.

7. Choose Add insert -> MCompressor

8. Select the envelope track in the Sequencer and choose
Output -> audio and also Output -> MCompressor.

9. Double-click the envelope track, change CC to 0
and choose High res from the drop-down option.

10. Find MCompressor instance in the main mixer
(leftmost side of the screen)

11. Open its interface by clicking that "e" icon next to its name.

12. Choose File -> CC Map, Add and from the drop-down option choose
Release parameter.

13. Now do the same for the second instance of MCompressor,
that we loaded as an insert to the audio track of the Sequencer.

14. Lower the tempo to 10 BPM or so.

15. Make it so that both plugin instances have their GUIs
visible and hit play on the Sequencer's transport.

16. Have you noticed that the Release setting of one of the
MCompressor instances is changing smoothly,
while the other is changing with obvious 10-20 value steps,
just like low MIDI resolution?

How can I avoid that and make it smooth in both cases?

Cheers!
Daniel

[DanielKonopka]

UPDATE:

It seems like Automation is fully 32bit only when
the envelope track destination is a plugin that is
- not - loaded as a direct insert of an audio track,
I mean, loaded into a MIDI track and then optionally
disconnected from it.

But then, we all know doing so destroys PDC... oh...

Could somebody shed some light on this?

This is a very important problem, as the stepping
caused by low resolution is very audible, especially
when it comes to - slooooooooooow - filter
resonance / sweep automation.

This, of course, affects every automatable plugin,
from Kjaerhus Classics to Izotope Ozone.

Even eXT VST loaded inside standalone version is affected.

[DanielKonopka]

Couldn't anybody replicate the problem,
or is my description so bad?

[engine]

i think your description is enough and well listed.

iirc, jorgen stated that he will never touch ext 1.41 again.
so i guess nobody is interested in confirming any bug for 1.41.
or at least only a few die-hard-xt1 fans got hope for it.

[DanielKonopka]

Aarghhh... I hate it when great developers abandon their
gems... I can only see one possible workaround - use eXT2
(to be honest, I'm not very fond of it...)
as host, send automation from eXT2 and use eXT1.4.1 as inserts...
then it works fine. I wonder how PDC behaves in such configuration,
though.

I may sound very naive, but I hope Jorgen opens up the 1.4.1
source code one day... I think, in the right hands it would be
a bomb, with all the known issues fixed etc.

[coops2]

I may sound very naive, but I hope Jorgen opens up the 1.4.1
source code one day... I think, in the right hands it would be
a bomb, with all the known issues fixed etc.

Sadly that will never happen as people wouldn't bother with eXT2. Personally, I'd like to see development of eXT1 continued and would happily pay for an upgrade that fixed some of its bugs

[DanielKonopka]

Yeah, I can feel your pain. Meanwhile, I tested the PDC
behaviour in eXT2 -> eXT1.4.1 chain and everything seems to
work properly.

[DanielKonopka]

Hello again,

I'm trying to use eXT VSTi within Reaper,
because I need Reaper's great automation.

So far, so good, great sync, etc.

My last problem is that automation data sent
from Reaper as a parameter to eXT (Param mapping)
is not received by Audio tracks inside Sequencer component.

Let's say that you send automation to eXT->param0 or param1, etc.,
you can map the CC to Sequencer's Master Out
(pan, volume will react as expected) section of the Main mixer.

But, tracks added into the Sequencer component are deaf to it.
They are dead. You can't automate their pan, vol, etc.

The same goes for their inserts...

UNLESS, you route at least one Sequencer's MIDI track Output
to them. BUT then... 32 bit automation precision is lost
and I can't live with it since it's to be used with
things like filter sweeps and sidechaining...

Arghhh... even Param mapping does not make it right.

-Here- is some old thread regarding that

Is there any hope for me, or do I have to abandon the
idea? Thinking of it makes me depressed...

Cheers!
Daniel

[funkadil]

why are you using xt1 audio tracks instead of reapers?

[DanielKonopka]

It's only because I'm quite used to eXT workflow, feel.
It feels faster and less bloated.

Plus, Reaper tends to rapidly decrease in responsiveness once
your project goes past 15-20 tracks.

eXT1 is harder to bring down this way...

Thus, I'd like to keep reliance on Reaper as low as possible.

But I'm considering it as my very last resort...

[DanielKonopka]

I think a potentially working workaround is to
abandon Sequencer component altogether
and store everything in the modular view.

This way, VSTi automation is kept as 32 bit
because there is no Sequencer component
on the way, so you don't have to load plugins
as inserts, you do it just by connecting
"cables" and the good news is PDC should also work
this way.

There are 2 drawbacks to this approach though...

First is that you have to abandon Sequencer,
so it creates the necessity to use Audio Part
components in the modular view, one per your track,
just as you would do inside the Sequencer.

Now, as you can imagine, it gets very crowdy
as the project grows, so I suggest to
use Dock pages in a smart way (for example,
everything that goes to Vox Audio part
gets its own Dock page "Vox", etc.)
to organize your workplace as well as possible.

Second drawback, is that because you get rid
of Sequencer, Freeze goes out the window with it...

I'm trying to figure out a workaround for that
as well, at the moment.

Any hints, tips, suggestions for that?


Cheers!
Daniel

[Pete Rubinsky]

This could be completely off target, but if you make a sequencer, some midi tracks with ext VSTs as outputs, distribute parts etc. into them, I think you could freeze No idea what would happen with the resolution

Greets, Pete