KVR Audio

sauli · Post by **sauli** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:06 am

LeVzi wrote:Why concentrate on the negative of a plug-in ? You use a plug-in to find the bad aspects of it ? No, you use it to get the good aspects of it. No harm in mentioning things you personally don't like, but bottom line is you focus on whats good about it.

IMO people should especially focus on what is wrong with the plugin. You can say good things about anything and people are often quilty of convincing themselves they haven't bought crap. Google for reviews of any product and you will most likely find mostly positive and over-negative reviews by people who are convincing themselves or super disappointed. Honest and positive reviews with emphasis on bad aspects would often be much more helpful.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:08 am

I don't know if there are any plain honest, objective reviews.

Most of the times some developers ask their users to write a review and so they do. And because they want to please them, they rather give 10 points than 8 and are attempted to hide the critics.

IMO the number of points or stars from the CM mag are exaggerated. Maybe because of the advertisers.

But that really doesn't trouble me as I always try the demo versions before I buy something.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:46 am

People usually review things when they are still excited about the product.

I've never done a review. I think there was a word minimum or something to that effect. Anyways, I think the forums are a better gauge anyhow because instead of one persons POV about one product, you can ask questions and exchange ideas. Sure there are a few instances in history where things derail

but mostly it's a good thing.

Anyhoo, I wonder how many of those reviews the people are still using the product (whistling)

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:48 am

hibidy wrote:I think the forums are a better gauge anyhow because instead of one persons POV about one product, you can ask questions and exchange ideas.

I definitely agree with this, we each have specific needs and getting 'custom' advice is important to me.

rifftrax · Post by **rifftrax** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:53 am

braj wrote: I'd like a way to make a listing on KVR of all the plugins I own/use, and have my ratings/reviews available there, and be able to adjust them as my opinions change. I'd also like to be able to look at a trusted KVR member's reviews easily in the same way. (I know there is supposed to be this feature but it doesn't work currently)

That's a really awesome idea actually.

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:07 am

braj wrote:I think if the rating system were better we would have better/more ratings.

The ultimate way that I rate any plugin is that they either go or they stay !

Like most people around here,I have tried a bunch of them,but I am culling them back to the ones that I use to get the results I need...

Pruning back the tree always promotes stronger growth

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:36 am

rifftrax wrote:
braj wrote: I'd like a way to make a listing on KVR of all the plugins I own/use, and have my ratings/reviews available there, and be able to adjust them as my opinions change. I'd also like to be able to look at a trusted KVR member's reviews easily in the same way. (I know there is supposed to be this feature but it doesn't work currently)
That's a really awesome idea actually.

Going further with this idea.. have it where it lists your Daw/Host/Sequencer of choice and some favorite plugins (based off of your rating, maybe top 5) and then some sort of script to list who has the same gear and is into the same styles/genre for collaborations.

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:44 am

VitaminD wrote:
rifftrax wrote:
braj wrote: I'd like a way to make a listing on KVR of all the plugins I own/use, and have my ratings/reviews available there, and be able to adjust them as my opinions change. I'd also like to be able to look at a trusted KVR member's reviews easily in the same way. (I know there is supposed to be this feature but it doesn't work currently)
That's a really awesome idea actually.
Going further with this idea.. have it where it lists your Daw/Host/Sequencer of choice and some favorite plugins (based off of your rating, maybe top 5) and then some sort of script to list who has the same gear and is into the same styles/genre for collaborations.

Sounds good to me

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:45 am

I like to read the reviews here, there and anywhere, and I like the forums for when new stuff comes out and everyone either goes nuts or is indifferent. It just draws my attention to the plugin then I go demo it and decide for myself if I want it.

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:50 am

JavaJ wrote:I rate this thread a 10!

I never rate threads more than an 8, until after I come in
and kill them off with some boring nonsense

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:54 am

Tricky-Loops wrote:I don't know if there are any plain honest, objective reviews.

But that really doesn't trouble me as I always try the demo versions before I buy something.

If I see ____ and ____________ are fighting about it, it's worth testing

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:06 am

if a review focuses too much on either negative or positive aspects it's a sure bet that it's a bad review. it's probably very ignorant and actually says very little about the item being reviewed.

when you see a review that describes most of the item as mediocre, then lists a couple significant positive and negative aspects that will generally give you more detail. rather than checking off everything and assigning a 9/10 score across the board, why not assign a neutral -10 to +10, zero to these things?

when people rate things they tend to assign a 9/10 score to something that is only a notch above average. they 'normalize' the score to what they've seen. 10/10 would be the best reference point they have, and 1/10 the worst.

a good rating system would be one where 1/10 represents the poorest implementation possible and 0/10 non-existent. 5/10 would represent average.

6 would require significantly above average. let's for example take beauty - as subjective as anything else. look at members of your highschool. the majority of persons there would probably have sat at 5/10. the weird looking out of shape people or those who didn't wash were probably 4/10. someone who'd had their face smashed in might have been 3/10. only the most attractive persons, probably 5/100 or so would fit into 6/10. 7/10 would be a very unique case for such a small sample size as generally that would sit at about 1/5000 instead.

yet what people will do is 'normalize' these scores as i've mentioned. the blonde hottie from your class will be the 10/10, a number which represents infinite perfection, something which is impossible. to use such a rating you would have to see absolutely no fault and see no possibility of ever finding any greater example. to match or best this rating would be impossible.

the slightly chubby freckled girl will become a 1/10 - a number that should be reserved for cthulhu. 0/10 would represent infinitely unattractive, someone so repulsive that even a short glance at them would shatter your mind and leave you huddled in a ball rocking back and forth sobbing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

unfortunately most people don't appear intelligent enough to recognize the issue with this normalization of relative points of reference.

without an absolute point of reference (being that these ratings are subjective) if you normalize them it makes them meaningless.

Mechanought · Post by **Mechanought** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:06 am

Honestly,

I haven't used a single plu-in or DAW that I would give a "10/10".

10/10 implies perfect. Without fault. 10/10 Implies that the software does exactly everything it says, is useful to me in every situation, and is the ultimate software.

This just doesn't exist. My highest rating I'll give is a 9/10. That's for "Really just f**king fantastic!". A really really good software that I find really useful.

The other variable is that plug-ins and DAW are experienced subjectively. Some people love Reaper, and some people hate Reaper. Some people love Pro Tools, some people hate Pro Tools (some people also love and hate Pro Tools simultaneously, but always com crawling back after a rough night of drinking). Some people put CamelPhat on EVERYTHING, and some people don't use CamelPhat at all.

I guess the gist is that Reviews and point systems are useless when it comes to individual taste, and needs.

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:06 am

I like the 'Metacritic' style of review sites, it would be cool if KVR could have user reviews and links to available professional reviews side by side along with a 'metascore', even some sort of 'low price' finder with links to KVR users selling copies.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:14 am

you have to be careful. even 9/10 would have to be something that only absolute perfection (impossible) would best. so you're leaving absolutely no room for improvement.

that would be extremely naive. you'd have to assume you know absolutely everything and are omnipotent. to rate 9/10 you would have stated that absolutely nothing could be improved other than to apply some sort of magic so as to make the thing absolutely perfect.

8/10 is the best thing you've ever seen and likely ever will.

7/10 is so good it's impossible for you to find a fault without applying a huge amount of research effort specifically aimed at discovering such a fault.

6/10 is more practical.

that might seem a bit extreme and if you're limited to integers these four steps really don't give you much room. fractions however will fix this.

5.5 would be slightly above average. out of a group of average things, this one would be rated best.

6.5 would be unusually good, so good that it would be considered a rare occurrence and not only that but a gem among gems! a gem that sparkles more brightly than the others.

7.5 would be so good as to be beyond your capability to qualify, yet somehow better. you don't know how it is better, it just is.

8.5 is similar to 7.5, only better than the best thing you could have ever hoped to see. it's a miracle.

9.5 is approaching light speed and appearing to surpass it.

The KVR user reviews - what a great age this is! Only 10s!