Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

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User avatar
Harry_HH
KVRAF
3951 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:13 am

I´m currently demoing the Dune 2 - as a owner of several top synths, so far mainly positive experience. In a nutshell: Dune 2 seems to be a versatile synth, all-around, good in many areas. It capable to generate great sounds, but maybe not that distinctive, brilliant sounds (e.g. Sylenth 1 has a very special, distinctive sound, where as Dune 2 is maybe more versatile but not that unique). Especially I like the clear, well-planned UI of the Dune.

I´ve even glanced the manual through but haven´t found the answer to one very fundamental question: how to make the parameter settings you make, constant. E.g. if you create an arp pattern or adjust your fx or modulation, and then you want to test/compare how different presets sound with these tweaked parameters, how to tell Dune that you
wan´t keep the parameters (you want) constant/default. For me this is a very basic workflow feature - if you can´t define the adjusted parameters constant, this will make your life very hard - at least creating optimal synth track very slow and irritating process.
Therefore: how to in Dune 2?

Dune 2 arp UI is nice and e.g. the MIDI import is a good feature. But I keep wondering why in the arp implementation, most of the developers (not only in Dune) limit to the same parameters, e.g. up, down, up and down etc. It should be rather easy to expand this view, one good example is the "chord", the "chord" setting should include options how the synth plays the notes of (MIDI keyboard) given chord - e.g. if I play C dim chord, you should be able to tell the arp in which order, repetitions, note lenght etc. the chord notes are played. Why are the arp parameters that limited.

(BTW, I´ve posted this comment also to the Synapse forum it seems to have that slow moderation that I don´t have patience waiting their pre-read.)

cytospur
KVRian
1345 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:26 am

I apologise for the slow moderation on the Synapse Audio forum. I'm currently on holiday and not perma-tied to the computer, which I usually am :)

Your post is now visible. The moderation is required due to problems with spam bots.
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.

Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt

User avatar
Harry_HH
KVRAF
3951 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:06 am

cytospur wrote:I apologise for the slow moderation on the Synapse Audio forum. I'm currently on holiday and not perma-tied to the computer, which I usually am :)

Your post is now visible. The moderation is required due to problems with spam bots.
Thank you - even more great if someone in Synapse Audio could answer to my questions. H.

2ZrgE
KVRian
1180 posts since 30 Mar, 2011

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:44 am

Harry_HH wrote:
Dune 2 arp UI is nice and e.g. the MIDI import is a good feature. But I keep wondering why in the arp implementation, most of the developers (not only in Dune) limit to the same parameters, e.g. up, down, up and down etc. It should be rather easy to expand this view, one good example is the "chord", the "chord" setting should include options how the synth plays the notes of (MIDI keyboard) given chord - e.g. if I play C dim chord, you should be able to tell the arp in which order, repetitions, note lenght etc. the chord notes are played. Why are the arp parameters that limited.
You just have to balance possibilities and usability. If the arp gets too complex I always have a hard time programming it. Personally I prefer a sequencer styled arp like the one in Predator. But there's always a compromise between Arp and piano roll programming to be found I guess.

For arp heaven you could try Cthulu from Xfer (which is a chord progression tool also), doesn't get better than this in terms of complexity and musical options.

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12921 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:47 am

There are specialized arp plugins out there, so synths usually focus on more basic, classic arp features, whereby Dune 2 already seems to be very well equipped to begin with. Your wishes are very specific and probably only found on external arp plugins.

I agree on the sound, it is very good, but never struck me as special in any way. That can be a good or a bad thing of course :)

User avatar
Harry_HH
KVRAF
3951 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:05 am

2ZrgE wrote: You just have to balance possibilities and usability. If the arp gets too complex I always have a hard time programming it. Personally I prefer a sequencer styled arp like the one in Predator. But there's always a compromise between Arp and piano roll programming to be found I guess.

For arp heaven you could try Cthulu from Xfer (which is a chord progression tool also), doesn't get better than this in terms of complexity and musical options.
Thank you for the hint - I have to take the Cthulhu to the test bench (not seeing this monster, if its anything similar to the South Park namesake, it must be quite a beast, controllable only by Eric Cartman - or maybe the name refer to the H.P. Lovecraft's original?).

User avatar
Harry_HH
KVRAF
3951 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:08 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:There are specialized arp plugins out there, so synths usually focus on more basic, classic arp features, whereby Dune 2 already seems to be very well equipped to begin with. Your wishes are very specific and probably only found on external arp plugins.

I agree on the sound, it is very good, but never struck me as special in any way. That can be a good or a bad thing of course :)
Yes, but maybe the devs could raise the bar of what´s "basic". I´d like the get the comments also to my question concerning the "constant" setting option.

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12921 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:17 am

I am not sure I understand your question. What you want seems very rare. Usually all settings are per patch, so as soon as you switch to another patch, they are lost. Some allow you to save section settings (Hive if I remember correctly) so you can load saved sections into different patches. But what you seem to want is being able to load only selected parts of a new patch, not the whole patch. I have not come across something like that so far, but maybe it is out there, who knows :)

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
17913 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:28 am

Harry_HH wrote:I´m currently demoing the Dune 2 - as a owner of several top synths, so far mainly positive experience. In a nutshell: Dune 2 seems to be a versatile synth, all-around, good in many areas. It capable to generate great sounds, but maybe not that distinctive, brilliant sounds (e.g. Sylenth 1 has a very special, distinctive sound, where as Dune 2 is maybe more versatile but not that unique). Especially I like the clear, well-planned UI of the Dune.

I´ve even glanced the manual through but haven´t found the answer to one very fundamental question: how to make the parameter settings you make, constant. E.g. if you create an arp pattern or adjust your fx or modulation, and then you want to test/compare how different presets sound with these tweaked parameters, how to tell Dune that you
wan´t keep the parameters (you want) constant/default. For me this is a very basic workflow feature - if you can´t define the adjusted parameters constant, this will make your life very hard - at least creating optimal synth track very slow and irritating process.
Therefore: how to in Dune 2?

Dune 2 arp UI is nice and e.g. the MIDI import is a good feature. But I keep wondering why in the arp implementation, most of the developers (not only in Dune) limit to the same parameters, e.g. up, down, up and down etc. It should be rather easy to expand this view, one good example is the "chord", the "chord" setting should include options how the synth plays the notes of (MIDI keyboard) given chord - e.g. if I play C dim chord, you should be able to tell the arp in which order, repetitions, note lenght etc. the chord notes are played. Why are the arp parameters that limited.

(BTW, I´ve posted this comment also to the Synapse forum it seems to have that slow moderation that I don´t have patience waiting their pre-read.)
What you are looking for (constant parameters) does not exist in any soft synth that I am aware of and I own hundreds of them.

Basic soft synth operation is like this.

You have or create an init patch, either through loading or clicking a button.

You make changes to that init patch and save them as a new patch.

Once you either load another patch (init or custom) or create one, all settings from the previous patch are lost upon loading. They don't carry over and there is no way to carry them over.

Not even Omnisphere, which costs $500, can do this.

If somebody on this forum knows of a soft synth that can carry over settings from another patch, please let the OP know because I'm dying to find out myself if such a rare beast exists.

Personally, I think Dune 2 is a great synth, even if it can't do what you're looking for.

User avatar
Harry_HH
KVRAF
3951 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:32 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:I am not sure I understand your question. What you want seems very rare. Usually all settings are per patch, so as soon as you switch to another patch, they are lost. Some allow you to save section settings (Hive if I remember correctly) so you can load saved sections into different patches. But what you seem to want is being able to load only selected parts of a new patch, not the whole patch. I have not come across something like that so far, but maybe it is out there, who knows :)
Maybe I didn´t express myself clearly enough. My point was simply the option to make your settings default ("freeze" them or make constant which is maybe more correct word). I think this shouldnt be a rare demand (or feature) - if your create some setting, e.g. arp progression, its very natural that the user wants to test the pattern/setting with different sounds/samples. If you change a preset in Dune 2, your previous arp settings are gone. You can find this "constant" option e.g. in some Valhalla DSP products.

2ZrgE
KVRian
1180 posts since 30 Mar, 2011

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:33 am

Standard feature in U-he synths and very useful indeed. :tu:

Some synths have a workaround where you can save your arp presets, but of course the best way is to lock the arp when switching presets (Omnisphere 2 also has this feature, it was heavily missed in Omni1)
Last edited by 2ZrgE on Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

2ZrgE
KVRian
1180 posts since 30 Mar, 2011

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:35 am

[deleted because of stupidity] :D

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12921 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:38 am

In Hive it is possible:
http://uhedownloads.heckmannaudiogmb.ne ... -guide.pdf

Page 5:
"To guarantee that the value of a parameter doesn’t change when you switch presets, use the Lock function. Right-click on any control and select the first entry from the context menu.
Note: You are still free to adjust the value of a locked parameter at any time!"

2ZrgE
KVRian
1180 posts since 30 Mar, 2011

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:41 am

wagtunes wrote:
Harry_HH wrote:I´m currently demoing the Dune 2 - as a owner of several top synths, so far mainly positive experience. In a nutshell: Dune 2 seems to be a versatile synth, all-around, good in many areas. It capable to generate great sounds, but maybe not that distinctive, brilliant sounds (e.g. Sylenth 1 has a very special, distinctive sound, where as Dune 2 is maybe more versatile but not that unique). Especially I like the clear, well-planned UI of the Dune.

I´ve even glanced the manual through but haven´t found the answer to one very fundamental question: how to make the parameter settings you make, constant. E.g. if you create an arp pattern or adjust your fx or modulation, and then you want to test/compare how different presets sound with these tweaked parameters, how to tell Dune that you
wan´t keep the parameters (you want) constant/default. For me this is a very basic workflow feature - if you can´t define the adjusted parameters constant, this will make your life very hard - at least creating optimal synth track very slow and irritating process.
Therefore: how to in Dune 2?

Dune 2 arp UI is nice and e.g. the MIDI import is a good feature. But I keep wondering why in the arp implementation, most of the developers (not only in Dune) limit to the same parameters, e.g. up, down, up and down etc. It should be rather easy to expand this view, one good example is the "chord", the "chord" setting should include options how the synth plays the notes of (MIDI keyboard) given chord - e.g. if I play C dim chord, you should be able to tell the arp in which order, repetitions, note lenght etc. the chord notes are played. Why are the arp parameters that limited.

(BTW, I´ve posted this comment also to the Synapse forum it seems to have that slow moderation that I don´t have patience waiting their pre-read.)
What you are looking for (constant parameters) does not exist in any soft synth that I am aware of and I own hundreds of them.

Basic soft synth operation is like this.

You have or create an init patch, either through loading or clicking a button.

You make changes to that init patch and save them as a new patch.

Once you either load another patch (init or custom) or create one, all settings from the previous patch are lost upon loading. They don't carry over and there is no way to carry them over.

Not even Omnisphere, which costs $500, can do this.

If somebody on this forum knows of a soft synth that can carry over settings from another patch, please let the OP know because I'm dying to find out myself if such a rare beast exists.

Personally, I think Dune 2 is a great synth, even if it can't do what you're looking for.
You don't know your synths well, do you? :wink:

Omn2 can do it (called "Soundlock"), so can every U-he synth with any parameter (afair).

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
17913 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dune 2 workflow and feature - some first impression comments

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:46 am

2ZrgE wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Harry_HH wrote:I´m currently demoing the Dune 2 - as a owner of several top synths, so far mainly positive experience. In a nutshell: Dune 2 seems to be a versatile synth, all-around, good in many areas. It capable to generate great sounds, but maybe not that distinctive, brilliant sounds (e.g. Sylenth 1 has a very special, distinctive sound, where as Dune 2 is maybe more versatile but not that unique). Especially I like the clear, well-planned UI of the Dune.

I´ve even glanced the manual through but haven´t found the answer to one very fundamental question: how to make the parameter settings you make, constant. E.g. if you create an arp pattern or adjust your fx or modulation, and then you want to test/compare how different presets sound with these tweaked parameters, how to tell Dune that you
wan´t keep the parameters (you want) constant/default. For me this is a very basic workflow feature - if you can´t define the adjusted parameters constant, this will make your life very hard - at least creating optimal synth track very slow and irritating process.
Therefore: how to in Dune 2?

Dune 2 arp UI is nice and e.g. the MIDI import is a good feature. But I keep wondering why in the arp implementation, most of the developers (not only in Dune) limit to the same parameters, e.g. up, down, up and down etc. It should be rather easy to expand this view, one good example is the "chord", the "chord" setting should include options how the synth plays the notes of (MIDI keyboard) given chord - e.g. if I play C dim chord, you should be able to tell the arp in which order, repetitions, note lenght etc. the chord notes are played. Why are the arp parameters that limited.

(BTW, I´ve posted this comment also to the Synapse forum it seems to have that slow moderation that I don´t have patience waiting their pre-read.)
What you are looking for (constant parameters) does not exist in any soft synth that I am aware of and I own hundreds of them.

Basic soft synth operation is like this.

You have or create an init patch, either through loading or clicking a button.

You make changes to that init patch and save them as a new patch.

Once you either load another patch (init or custom) or create one, all settings from the previous patch are lost upon loading. They don't carry over and there is no way to carry them over.

Not even Omnisphere, which costs $500, can do this.

If somebody on this forum knows of a soft synth that can carry over settings from another patch, please let the OP know because I'm dying to find out myself if such a rare beast exists.

Personally, I think Dune 2 is a great synth, even if it can't do what you're looking for.
You don't know your synths well, do you? :wink:

Omn2 can do it (called "Soundlock"), so can every U-he synth with any parameter (afair).
I guess I don't. It's kind of hard to know every inch of every synth you own when you own hundreds of them. So shoot me.

And since I don't care about such a feature (I create every patch from init) I wouldn't even think to look for it anyway. I look for what I need. Not for what I don't need. Otherwise, I'd have to read the manual of every synth I own from cover to cover and I just don't have the time or patience for that.

But thanks for letting me know that Omnisphere and every U-he synth has this feature. If I get the time I might check it out.

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