Effect to intelligently remove narrow frequency peaks from tracks?

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Already asked about this in another topic, but since it was really about something else, I dare to post a new one.

Over the years, I have noticed my ears have become very (overly?) sensitive to these narrow frequency peaks that can occur in a lot of situations - for example with ambient pads that have some serious frequency processing, or when loud vocals are compressed & processed heavily. Often single tracks suffer from these peaks, or it can happen when two or more more tracks are summed.

Now, I have noticed that every time my ear catches these annoying peaks, it's very easy to locate them visually with a frequency analyzer (the peak or peaks clearly stand higher than the surrounding frequencies), and then I can just use a narrow-band EQ to tame them. But the problems start when the vocalist or instrument moves to another note (as they often do, those bastards), which means the problem frequencies shift to another place.

I have sometimes used a dynamic EQ and pre-programmed the most problematic frequencies, but it seems that no matter what I try, it never really does what I want it to do (it cuts some even when it's not supposed to, and does not cut enough when my ears hear a very apparent spike). Not to mention that depending on the audio content, there can be a dozen different problem frequencies at different times. In the end I always have to use static EQs and a lot of automation, which is extremely frustrating and time-consuming.

The problematic peaks I'm talking about are very narrow (often single harmonics), and sometimes very close to each other, and require surgical precision. For example, on a vocal track, there might be problem peak at 350Hz, then a second later, at 380Hz. To cut those properly, the cut needs to accurately follow the peak, one fixed setting doesn't quite do it. The peaks usually occur somewhere between 300-1000Hz, and they are often one of the first harmonics above the fundamental (at least in vocals).

So. What I'm after is an effect that intelligently monitors the whole frequency range, and notices any narrow frequencies that are about to rise too high compared to the rest of the audio (usually there are only 1-2 of those at a time), and makes them softer. It's also important that the imaginary effect would always compare the level of the peak to the overall audio level, instead of just monitoring if it exceeds some fixed threshold.

My limited common sense tells me that this shouldn't be impossible, since I can easily spot those frequencies with both my ears and eyes, although it probably requires some processing power. I know there are "feedback eliminator" devices which probably work similarly to what I'm after? Note that I'm not after a traditional multiband compressor - unless it has at least 1000 bands and an intelligent dynamic threshold for each band. :) Also tried some Googling, but I really don't know what to look for... if such an effect exists, I have no idea if the effect type has an established name (like "compressor" or "reverb"). It might be possible to build something like this in Reaktor, I already tried some simple tests, but if the effect already exists, I better not waste my time on something that probably doesn't work anyway...

I can also post some audio examples if you don't quite know what I'm talking about. Any ideas are welcome, thanks!

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Captain wrote:So. What I'm after is an effect that intelligently monitors the whole frequency range, and notices any narrow frequencies that are about to rise too high compared to the rest of the audio (usually there are only 1-2 of those at a time), and makes them softer. It's also important that the imaginary effect would always compare the level of the peak to the overall audio level, instead of just monitoring if it exceeds some fixed threshold.
Why can't you just use a compressor? That's what it sounds like you need

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robojam wrote: Why can't you just use a compressor? That's what it sounds like you need
Anything that works on the overall volume level (like a compressor) or broad frequency ranges (most multiband compressors) doesn't really fix the problem I'm hearing. Even automating the track level and reducing its volume does not work - my ear can still hear the nasty peaks. I guess it's some psychoacoustic thing: the ear seems to compare the level of the frequencies to each other, and just reducing the volume of the whole track (using a compressor or automation) keeps the relations intact. Also, compressors usually react to the overall energy of the sound, a narrow peak (even if it's loud) doesn't really make the compressor do much.

The cuts needed to get rid of the peaks can sometimes be quite drastic, usually something like 5-12dB.

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If the difference between a "problem peak" and it's neighbors is only a dB or two, following the problem peak may be hard to do without manual intervention. I think you need to preprocess you track to find the envelope you want to follow, then use the envelope to automate a dynamic EQ or something like Voxengo Soniformer. I'm just not sure you can automate surgical eq/compression without unintentional side effects...
You need to limit that rez, bro.

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Captain wrote:Also, compressors usually react to the overall energy of the sound, a narrow peak (even if it's loud) doesn't really make the compressor do much.
You can process the vocal separately, via a parallel bus for example, to enhance the peak, then use that buss as sidechain to a compressor or eq. The problem I see is accurately following the problem peaks across the spectrum...
You need to limit that rez, bro.

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kbaccki wrote:If the difference between a "problem peak" and it's neighbors is only a dB or two, following the problem peak may be hard to do without manual intervention.
It's usually more than that, and quite easy to spot both aurally and visually.
kbaccki wrote:I think you need to preprocess you track to find the envelope you want to follow, then use the envelope to automate a dynamic EQ or something like Voxengo Soniformer. I'm just not sure you can automate surgical eq/compression without unintentional side effects...
But automation is the very thing I'm trying to get rid of... :lol:

Hmm, I'll go back and try to give you a real-life example with audio and all. Might take a while, but hope it will make things clearer...

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You could try something like MSpectralDynamics from Melda Production:
http://www.meldaproduction.com/mspectraldynamics/


"MSpectralDynamics does not have any bands and works with the entire spectrum instead. It approximates energy located in each frequency and applies the dynamics to it separately. You can perform spectral compression to balance the spectral energy."

I remember it was versatile plugin and Vojtech from Melda is also good for listening feature requests if you want nasty peaks limited more.

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Not cheap but excellent for this sort of thing:

http://www.proaudiodsp.com/products/dsm/

Funnily enough this basically is an intelligent multiband compressor - not sure how many bands but it's loads.

For the task you are describing, you play a part of the performance you are happy with and then it restrains peaks that fall outside that range in the rest of the performance (a simplified explanation of how this plugin works but that's the basic concept).

It can also work for other problem solving tasks too such as program maximisation, De-essing, Dynamic EQ, Static EQ, frequency matching, limiting, the list goes on.

It is designed by Paul Frindle, who was the original mastermind behind the Sonnox plugins and SSL G-series Console, so quality is beyond top notch.

Hope this helps ;)

Cheers

Scorb

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Thanks for the tips, fortunately both have a demo so I'll be able to test them. Seems like they might be doing a little more than the "simple" feature I'm after (ideally the imaginary plugin would not do anything to the sound unless there's a distinct spike or two peaking), but I'll know more after trying them. Thanks again! :)

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The Melda plugin says "no bands"... so it's some approximation of a continuous curve... then a single set of compression params applied to the approximation? Soniformer is 32 bands, and gives fine control over compression params across the 32 bands. Either of those would probably give decent results, as they're both spectral dynamics processors... but again, if you need "program dependent in the spectral domain", I don't think that exists without sidechaining of some sort. I guess spectral processors are "program dependent" by nature, but the point is for any of these plugs by themselves, the compressor params (whether 1 set, or 32 sets) are fixed for each time slice. Maybe that's all you need...
You need to limit that rez, bro.

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Captain wrote:Thanks for the tips, fortunately both have a demo so I'll be able to test them. Seems like they might be doing a little more than the "simple" feature I'm after (ideally the imaginary plugin would not do anything to the sound unless there's a distinct spike or two peaking), but I'll know more after trying them. Thanks again! :)
As with any compressor, lower the threshold and you'll get more compression. :) But still, "peaking or not" is defined by fixed threshold params. You should at least run the vocal through a leveling compressor first to even things out prior to spectral balancing. That should at least make the spectral peaks more consistent.
You need to limit that rez, bro.

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