KVR Audio

fortycoats · Post by **fortycoats** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:12 pm

I chose the uninstall already purchased and donate "free" gifts as serial method for the waves stuff.

Life is short (but much sweeter now!)

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:15 pm

Like I have said here many times before I see nothing wrong with it. Actually, they have been indeed a leader in this but it's nothing new. The microtransaction sales model has been proven to work in other industries way before Waves ever got there. The prime example being the game sales. Both Steam and Gog have been doing exactly the same many many years before Waves. And because of that I have more games in my library than I could ever find time to finish. And same goes for Waves plugins. 10 years ago I would have never thought of getting any Waves plugins (if not warezing) for my personal use. I actually could not stand Waves at all as they were a horrible arrogant and bullish company, only caring about big studios. But now I have a lot of their plugins as part of my regular workflow. And I am absolutely satisfied with their support which is best in industry.

It is a well proven economic theory according to which it's better to sell more at cheap than less at higher price, because in the first case your income is probably higher overall and you'll get larger market penetration. People are willing to buy more stuff over time if it's cheap enough. This goes especially for things like digital goods.

And obviously Waves have been reacting to changing market realities. A lot of the music gets made in home studios these days. For that market the old Waves enterprise friendly model was not well suited. Most probably don't notice this but they have also made big expansions into the large music enterprise and big studio market with their Digigrid systems and plugins for live use on digital consoles. So they have divested their business as a good business does.

Truth to be told, I think they had a kind of advantage over competition regarding this. They had such a big catalog of plugins whose development had already paid itself for a long time a go, so they could just sell them on the cheap.

And just to add, I just don't understand that irrational Waves hate. It's frankly moronic.

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:18 pm

krabbencutter wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:44 pm I currently fear, that voting with our wallets is not going to have any impact. But how can a community help shape the future of the industry in a constructive way? I'm curious about your ideas.

So you are basically arguing that we should pay more?

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:21 pm

What worries me more, is that with each Version update, the older ones will stop working "conveniently" forcing the WUP to be renewed

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:25 pm

LeVzi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:21 pm What worries me more, is that with each Version update, the older ones will stop working "conveniently" forcing the WUP to be renewed

Wut? That is just patently false. I have V9, V10 and V11 all running side by side without any problems and I have not paid WUP for many many years for those V9 plugins.

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:27 pm

robotmonkey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:25 pm
LeVzi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:21 pm What worries me more, is that with each Version update, the older ones will stop working "conveniently" forcing the WUP to be renewed
Wut? That is just patently false. I have V9, V10 and V11 all running side by side without any problems and I have not paid WUP for many many years for those V9 plugins.

Never said it HAD happened, I fear that it WILL happen.

XorXisT · Post by **XorXisT** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:31 pm

Brexit will happen way sooner than your conspiracy theory, trust me.

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:35 pm

It could happen but I doubt it will because of Waves. More likely it could happen because of operating systems vendors. Mac users are obviously more at risk regarding this.

fortycoats · Post by **fortycoats** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:11 pm

robotmonkey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:25 pm
LeVzi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:21 pm What worries me more, is that with each Version update, the older ones will stop working "conveniently" forcing the WUP to be renewed
Wut? That is just patently false. I have V9, V10 and V11 all running side by side without any problems and I have not paid WUP for many many years for those V9 plugins.

Yeah the keep buying plugins forever is another option. Nothing special enough in the waves catalogue for me to consider that path!

Happy Xmas

Coxy · Post by **Coxy** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:11 pm

krabbencutter wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:44 pm What bothers and frightens me about all this, is that they're one of the most influential plugin companies in the world and they are getting away with it. And if they continue not playing fair in regards of marketing & pricing, this might have a much bigger negative impact on the whole industry in the long term.

Getting away with what? Sporadic pricing and diluting their product value by continued rollercoaster sales? Well that's up to them.

And how are they not playing fair? This is a free market economy.

Markets are fickle and it's natural for companies to look on at other companies strategies and assume what "other companies" are doing must be working because they keep doing it (case in point here, Waves perpetual sales) so often companies will follow suit thus the whole industry gradually starts to shift towards that way.

It often represents and follows a changing pattern in consumer habits, whether the catalyst for that change is anecdotal, empircal or entirely data driven is up for debate however.

If you're looking for a cause to get behind then there are many ills in the world that require some positive drive and energy to fix, in my opinion Waves pricing structure isn't one of them.

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:18 pm

XorXisT wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:31 pm Brexit will happen way sooner than your conspiracy theory, trust me.

krabbencutter · Post by **krabbencutter** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:28 pm

--deleted

GRUMP · Post by **GRUMP** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:34 pm

They are different. Let them do what they want to and do what you want to.

Me personally - I don´t even have one Waves Plugin. I mean - why should I believe someone who permanently lies and exxegerates in his Marketing? Why should I believe Tony Maseratis Storys if can already imagine that he´d say anything for the money he gets in the End?

And I want good Sound - and not nice Images and big Producers endorsing Products for Money.

If you want a good red Wine or a really tasty Cheese you won´t get in in a Discounter. That´s what we all should have learned already. You shouldn´t just look at the Product and the Price. You should also look at the People and their Behaviour. The Philosophy. If I compare U-he and Waves for Example - their Marketing and Pricing - I immediately know who I will pay more Attention - and I frequently pay €15 upwards for what I call a Bottle of red Wine. (try Sessantanni - Primitivo di Manduria!).

Face the Truth: Waves represents the broad Mass of People. I hope you know what I mean...

You tell them that you need this Plugin for this and those Plugins for that and they just believe it. They don´t even try different Solutions. And in the End they´ll make an economic descision that usually doesn´t have much to to with their Targets anymore. It´s maybe frustrating, but maybe you should better accept that People can be influenced quiet easy, that their Behaviour usually follows certain Rules and make it better for yourself

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:56 pm

Honestly why even care, bitch and moan about they having sales. If you want something, then wait until it's on sale and get it. And if it will be on sale even cheaper the next month, then what's the big deal? If you had the money and wanted the plugin at the time, then you clearly were ok with the price. I do get it - it's psychological, but just suck it up and be happy with what you have. People are literally whining because they get stuff cheaply.

This model is here to stay and it's evident that all the other players are following suit. Even u-he, despite promising never to have a sale, has caved in recently. The only thing that separates Waves from most, is that they have such a big catalog of plugins that they can afford to have perpetual sales.

This model makes perfect sense in an oversaturated market. This year the only thing I paid for was to upgrade my Gold and RenMaxx bundles. I did it only because it was super cheap - 21$, and to get about 2/3 of my plugins to V11. Last year I also bought almost nothing. Anything I bought last year was only because it was super cheap. The fact is that even 5 years ago I had already so many plugins, that for years I could have done without buying a single plugin and still have unlimited possibilities for sound shaping. And I'm not even the plugin hoarder like many here. I actually have had quite clean, ascetic and stable list of plugins for years. But despite this, whatever plugins category I look, I still have 5-10 in each (reverb, delay etc). I don't need to get anything anymore (I even pass on most freebies) and the only way to entice me to get anything, it needs to be cheap enough and add some new possibilities to my arsenal.

For example, this year the only thing I could still see spending money on, is WUP. But only if they discount it enough. Then I would probably upgrade my 3 V10 plugins with expired WUP to V11 so I would be left with V9 and V11 for easier management.

Waves - What can we do?