Plug In Guru Unify

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
tony10000
KVRian
846 posts since 4 Aug, 2017

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:46 am

This looks like a really cool plugin...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoDIlFFhuMQ



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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16066 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:30 pm

Not seeing anything that sells it over other plugin-combining platforms. In fact, it misses many features. The only thing that would make me use it over Logic's track/summing stacks would be cross-platform functionality i.e being able to use the same combinations in other daw's. But, again, there are other pachers/hosts that are far more flexible.

The supposedly unique selling points don't really sell it to me.

- Having a daw-like interface, design and workflow is not really an advantage, imo. What other similar products offer is a way of breaking out of that linear familiarity of most daw, allowing for much more flexibility in terms of routing. Top-to-bottom linear stacking of effects is what many people are looking to get away from with external patchers/hosts :shrug:

- Shipping with a library of composite sounds is great, except when it comes to sounds that contain synths that the user doesn't own.

- That it is really intended as a platform for hosting new products perhaps explains the simple nature of the software. Nothing wrong with creating a platform to host these multi-libraries, but I wonder about the model of selling libraries for combinations of synths that many folk just aren't going to own. I guess only time will tell.

Were it to have flexible effects patching, and freely-assignabke macro control e.g like Alchemy, it might have been of some interest to me, especially as I'm currently weighing up patching/hosting options. But I don't really see this in the same light as Metaplugin, Bidule or Element :shrug:

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mgw38
KVRAF
2323 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:50 pm

I think this plugin has to be evaluated within the context of what Pluginguru is known for. John Lehmkuhl is one of the most accomplished patch designers. His stuff is absolutely outstanding. If he uses this plugin to produce and publish cross plugin libraries, this is going to be interesting.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16066 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:27 pm

mgw38 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:50 pm
I think this plugin has to be evaluated within the context of what Pluginguru is known for. John Lehmkuhl is one of the most accomplished patch designers. His stuff is absolutely outstanding. If he uses this plugin to produce and publish cross plugin libraries, this is going to be interesting.
I get that. While I don't own any of his libraries, clearly he is a very good sound-designer. I just don't see people paying for libraries of sounds that will, in-part, rely on products that they might not own.

tony10000
KVRian
846 posts since 4 Aug, 2017

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:57 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:27 pm
mgw38 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:50 pm
I think this plugin has to be evaluated within the context of what Pluginguru is known for. John Lehmkuhl is one of the most accomplished patch designers. His stuff is absolutely outstanding. If he uses this plugin to produce and publish cross plugin libraries, this is going to be interesting.
I get that. While I don't own any of his libraries, clearly he is a very good sound-designer. I just don't see people paying for libraries of sounds that will, in-part, rely on products that they might not own.
Did you watch the videos and read the information about the product?

Specifically:

"It ships with a library of composite sounds, many of which are built entirely with free plug-ins, so it's ready to play 'out of the box'."

AND

"As a "wrapper" for other plug-ins, UNIFY offers some highly useful capabilities:

"It allows DAWs to use plug-ins which they could not use directly, e.g. VST or VST3 plug-ins can be used in Logic Pro X, which normally can host only Audio-Unit plug-ins.

"On Windows, built-in support for jBridge allows it to load legacy 32-bit VST plug-ins into 64-bit-only DAWs like Cubase.

"Multi-threading capability allows complex plug-in combinations on a single DAW track, taking advantage of multiple CPU cores in ways the individual plug-ins cannot. This is essential for DAWs like Logic Pro X, which assign only one CPU core per track.

"As a tool for creating, saving and playing composite presets using multiple plug-ins, UNIFY will simplify the process of sharing sounds, even with people who use different DAWs. It's effectively a 'portable Combinator'. On the same platform (Ableton to Logic Pro on Mac, Reaper to Cubase on Windows) this is easy. Going from PC to Mac or vice versa involves additional conversion steps, for which UNIFY provides some support."

He also states: "It's intended primarily as a platform for future multi-plugin sound libraries, several of which are already in development by Lehmkuhl and other well-established sound designers."

At an initial price point of $59, I believe it offers quite a bit if it is something that will enhance your workflow. If you are consumer of his sound libraries, it is a no brainer.

tony10000
KVRian
846 posts since 4 Aug, 2017

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:02 pm

In the video, he also states this is version 1.0 and there are plans for additional features as well as a pro version that will allow you to create your own samples that will be bundled with a larger sound library.

David
KVRAF
1764 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:17 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:30 pm
Not seeing anything that sells it over other plugin-combining platforms. In fact, it misses many features. The only thing that would make me use it over Logic's track/summing stacks would be cross-platform functionality i.e being able to use the same combinations in other daw's. But, again, there are other pachers/hosts that are far more flexible.

The supposedly unique selling points don't really sell it to me.

- Having a daw-like interface, design and workflow is not really an advantage, imo. What other similar products offer is a way of breaking out of that linear familiarity of most daw, allowing for much more flexibility in terms of routing. Top-to-bottom linear stacking of effects is what many people are looking to get away from with external patchers/hosts :shrug:

- Shipping with a library of composite sounds is great, except when it comes to sounds that contain synths that the user doesn't own.

- That it is really intended as a platform for hosting new products perhaps explains the simple nature of the software. Nothing wrong with creating a platform to host these multi-libraries, but I wonder about the model of selling libraries for combinations of synths that many folk just aren't going to own. I guess only time will tell.

Were it to have flexible effects patching, and freely-assignabke macro control e.g like Alchemy, it might have been of some interest to me, especially as I'm currently weighing up patching/hosting options. But I don't really see this in the same light as Metaplugin, Bidule or Element :shrug:
As far as I can make out, the whole point is that Unify by default is already filled with only free and open source synths, as well as its own sampler, that together will provide the layers used so everyone with Unify will have the same sound sources. So new Unify sets won't require any other synths, and John will henceforth always know that he can build layered patches that all his future customers can use. I suppose that if he does another Omnisphere set, it too will be running inside Unify, so that'll be the only synth any customer for his new Omnisphere stuff will have to also get. HIs tons of one-synth libraries won't be going away.

The other basic reason behind Unify as I understand, is about making all available cores usable, and patch loading very fast.

I don't see this as any sort of general-purpose competitor for Bidule or Patchwork. Compared to those, sure, it's out-classed. But it's NOT compared to those, which are aimed at allowing users to do whatever they want. UNify is a way for a great sound designer to take back some control over what HE'S designing for, so he's not simply dependent on other synth-makers. His fans (like me) seem pretty buzzed about that:)

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realkuhl
KVRist
31 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from Portland, Oregon USA

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:06 pm

I appreciate this thread being created and hope this reply helps some of you understand more clearly our mission.

I'll start by saying that this plug-in primarily built for me to continue my sound design adventure that started in 2009. I have now created 80 patch libraries for a pretty healthy # of synthesizers with 40 libraries for Omnisphere alone. If you don't know my history, I've worked as one of the main patch designers for Korg since 1988 and have worked on MANY synthesizers for both software and hardware companies (this year alone, I was lead programmer for Brainworx Oberhausen and contributed 50 patches to Unfiltered Audio's LION plus wavetables from my Serum libraries were licensed for use in Korg's Gadget 2 and Korg's Electribe WAVE for iPad). Pretty amazing year to be honest with you before even starting to talk about adding Unify to the 2019 resume....

But let's talk about Unify and where it came from.

I'm DONE making libraries the way I have for 10 years. I've paid the licensing fee$,$$$s to make libraries for Kontakt player and I've dealt with the limited # of samples available to 3rd party sound developers for Omnisphere 2. I'm finally able to break free of these limitations with my own plug-in which will start with very basic capabilities in version 1.0 and will grow from there... we have very lofty goals for Unify. The fact that we've put together a handful of pretty amazing GPL license based synthesizers that many people have never heard of will shine the light on how great these instruments truly are and provide a way for me to show the power of Unify without requiring the use of ANY non GPL licensed plug-ins.

Yes, it's not as fully featured as some plug-ins in this arena, but at v1.0, Unify does some things already that NOTHING else can do (VST, VST3 + Audio Unify support for both plug-ins and DAW compatibility (for example, Reason's new plug-in is VST3 only at the moment but you can load it into Logic Pro X which only works with Audio Units RIGHT NOW), Unify has 2 MIDI Effects slots (can actually play more than 2 MIDI effects) and easily assign them to any of the created synth layers (right now, Ableton Live,Cubase and other DAW's require multiple channels + routing setups (or don't support MIDI effects AT ALL) before you can use MIDI effects), MultiThread support (for example build the same MULTI using multiple Omnisphere 2's and get more polyphony before your computer cries for mercy), super easy workflow to make splits/layers with any plug-ins you own, use as many audio effects as you want, user definable subsets to reorganize and display ALL your plug-ins the way YOU want to see them, custom effects we've built + our own custom Sample player accessing select samples from the 12 sample libraries I've created for Omnisphere/Kontakt and much much more). This isn't even everything included but I hope shows you just some of the abilities we have with version 1.0 that no other plug-in can accomplish at the moment.

The people behind this project = a team of 2 people. Shane Dunne in Canada (writing all of the code) and myself (I'm the director/designer for Unify). Shane has been writing the code for Unify since January FULL TIME and we're reaching our first point where we can release something we believe 1000% in. We have to start somewhere - neither of of have been paid a penny to date for the work we've put into Unify. We have big dreams and very challenging future goals. We've designed this to support many years of growth and advancement - what you see as version 1.0 will be quite different in time with everything we plan to add to Unify!

If you don't want to buy into Unify, that's totally fine. When you buy a future PlugInGuru library, it will come with a free Unify player that will work if you don't own the Standard or future Pro version of Unify. You don't have to own Unify in order to play the libraries I'll release (the player will be strictly a player with zero editing of sound parameters).

So we are not competing with anybody else. This isn't a competition in our minds. If you want to compare Unify to other plug-ins, that's fine (and to be expected because that's how humans work) but just so you know where we're coming from... this is far more than just a plug-in.

Kind Regards,
John "SkipPy" Lehmkuhl
Last edited by realkuhl on Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
• Sound Designer / Programmer for Korg Synthesizers
• Custom Sounds 4 Sale (Massive, FM8, Stylus RMX) and Free Video Tutorials PlugInGuru.com.

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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
4015 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:29 pm

I love this idea! Taking note :D
High Quality Soundsets for Lush-101 | Hive | Electra 2 | Diversion | Halion | Largo | Rapid | Dune II | Thorn | and more.

David
KVRAF
1764 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:29 am

I agree; it's all-fresh, next-level innovation from 2 brilliant artists—got my complete attention—Thank you, John, can't wait to see what you get up to with it!

I'm especially intrigued to see what sort of modulation options are going to be available, both from the start and as this thing evolves. After 40 Omnisphere libraries, there's no way I can see you putting up with anything but equally great stuff in this area:) Bravo on the SUPER snappy envelopes you demo'ed in the livestream!

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16066 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:42 am

tony10000 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:57 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:27 pm
mgw38 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:50 pm
I think this plugin has to be evaluated within the context of what Pluginguru is known for. John Lehmkuhl is one of the most accomplished patch designers. His stuff is absolutely outstanding. If he uses this plugin to produce and publish cross plugin libraries, this is going to be interesting.
I get that. While I don't own any of his libraries, clearly he is a very good sound-designer. I just don't see people paying for libraries of sounds that will, in-part, rely on products that they might not own.
Did you watch the videos and read the information about the product?

Specifically:

"It ships with a library of composite sounds, many of which are built entirely with free plug-ins, so it's ready to play 'out of the box'."

AND

"As a "wrapper" for other plug-ins, UNIFY offers some highly useful capabilities:

"It allows DAWs to use plug-ins which they could not use directly, e.g. VST or VST3 plug-ins can be used in Logic Pro X, which normally can host only Audio-Unit plug-ins.

"On Windows, built-in support for jBridge allows it to load legacy 32-bit VST plug-ins into 64-bit-only DAWs like Cubase.

"Multi-threading capability allows complex plug-in combinations on a single DAW track, taking advantage of multiple CPU cores in ways the individual plug-ins cannot. This is essential for DAWs like Logic Pro X, which assign only one CPU core per track.

"As a tool for creating, saving and playing composite presets using multiple plug-ins, UNIFY will simplify the process of sharing sounds, even with people who use different DAWs. It's effectively a 'portable Combinator'. On the same platform (Ableton to Logic Pro on Mac, Reaper to Cubase on Windows) this is easy. Going from PC to Mac or vice versa involves additional conversion steps, for which UNIFY provides some support."

He also states: "It's intended primarily as a platform for future multi-plugin sound libraries, several of which are already in development by Lehmkuhl and other well-established sound designers."

At an initial price point of $59, I believe it offers quite a bit if it is something that will enhance your workflow. If you are consumer of his sound libraries, it is a no brainer.
I did check out the web-page, and watched various parts of the video (It was about 4am, and so I couldn't watch through a long stream). However, I got enough of a gist of the product to make the comments and pose the questions that I did.

I did see that it comes with a library predominantly made up of included sounds, but I also saw a screenshot or thumbnail showing an instance of Zebra mixed in with the freebies. That prompted my question about preset stacks that include instruments that a user may not own.

Personally, I have no interest in wrappers (At this point, anything that I am interested in is available in AU), but I can see how it would be useful for others.

There are two things about this that do interest me - The browser functionality and the Multi-threading capability. Unfortunately, for me, the benefits of a slick browser are countered by the extra level of abstraction between the plugin and the daw. And the multi-threading capability, for me, would be too limited by the lack of flexible routing options.
Maybe a 'Pro' version would offer such flexibility. Until such a time, I am not the market for this plugin :tu:

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
16066 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:52 am

David wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:17 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:30 pm
But I don't really see this in the same light as Metaplugin, Bidule or Element :shrug:
I don't see this as any sort of general-purpose competitor for Bidule or Patchwork. Compared to those, sure, it's out-classed. But it's NOT compared to those, which are aimed at allowing users to do whatever they want.
Well, John does make comparisons to those plugins on his site :shrug: Perhaps he'd be better off not mentioning them at all, seeing as he is really aiming at something different i.e A preset-sharing platform.

David
KVRAF
1764 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR

Re: Plug In Guru Unify

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:45 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:52 am
David wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:17 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:30 pm
But I don't really see this in the same light as Metaplugin, Bidule or Element :shrug:
I don't see this as any sort of general-purpose competitor for Bidule or Patchwork. Compared to those, sure, it's out-classed. But it's NOT compared to those, which are aimed at allowing users to do whatever they want.
Well, John does make comparisons to those plugins on his site :shrug: Perhaps he'd be better off not mentioning them at all, seeing as he is really aiming at something different i.e A preset-sharing platform.
I'd agree… It does seem more confusing than helpful to compare this to anything else out there right up front considering what its main purpose is, which is quite unique when taken altogether.

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