Why you left Ableton?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
KVRAF
8448 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:12 pm

Because I use Bitwig?

:hihi:

Still though, Ableton just isn't as interesting or useful for me when I have so much more in Bitwig. For recording I'm well covered with Logic.

FWIW I've been a Live user since Version 6.

How about you?
Last edited by V0RT3X on Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
:borg:

Skunk Mod
21282 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:14 pm

Why, you…!

KVRAF

Topic Starter

8448 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:17 pm

Meffy wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:14 pm
Why, you…!
Sorry couldn't help myself! :lol:

If it makes your life any easier feel free to lock this or delete it.
:borg:

Skunk Mod
21282 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:24 pm

No, I was just reading the title out loud. On a keyboard.

[eta] The title of this and the Bitwig thread make me think of the "Y U NO" raegface guy.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

8448 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:32 pm

yuno.jpg
:lol:
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:borg:

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KVRAF
3597 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:29 pm

:lol: :lol:
Not sure if I should ruin this thread with a real answer? but here's my take:

I've used Ableton Live since 04. My initial primary goal with it was live playback of tacks while launching a few clips and playing a soft synth or two etc. Me and Ableton have been parting ways since forever, I spent hours trying to convince them and others of the value of keeping the lead in live playback, of a MIDI editor that didn't need to be stretched by hand, of more than a dozen keyboard shortcuts, of MPE, etc. etc. etc. What we got instead was Max 4 Live.

So this super intuitive clips launcher DAW gets an object oriented programming language essentially.. The more I use and look at the surrounding branding done with Live the more I see a DAW that's made for people who want to dabble in music, but maybe aren't much good at any instrument in particular. IT professionals that love the initial UX who already know how to code, so they take to Max easily and are thrilled with the whole environment. Me on the other hand I get excited to work in it again after playing around in DP10 or Reaper, and then the CPU hit of it takes over, or the constant mousing for everything.

Bitwig at first looked to be going completely against the direction I was hoping they were going to go in, but it's CPU efficient, has a full screen MIDI editor, lots of keyboard shortcuts, MPE support etc. etc. The scripting that had to be done to get control surfaces to work ticked me off, but Möss made it all work. DP10 dropped with Clips, so if I need a DAW with SysEx, ReWire, NRPN, film scoring capabilities I'm covered, and as of now Bitwig covers the control surface support.

TL;DR - I just have come to realize that Live isn't going in a direction that I'm going in, after 15+ years it's time to move on. We will see, but Bitwig and DP10 are covering all the ground that Live was and then some.

KVRAF
1708 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:18 pm

Haven’t.

KVRAF
1690 posts since 26 Aug, 2012

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:28 pm

If pweeple leave a daw like Ableton it's because they're lookin' for somethin' that cannot be found, somethin' that has a magic button dat does all Z work for you. Ya wastin' ya time. Do tha work ya-selves, spend time developin' ya skills. You dig? Dont blame the tools is wha-I'm sayin'.

KVRAF
3183 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:59 pm

It’s too processor hungry, I love it but work mostly on large multi tracked sessions so have had to leave it.
It’s a shame but it’s fallen behind the rest of the pack I regards of cpu hit.
I’m hoping Ableton up their game soon because I’m sure I’m not alone in moving on.

KVRian
661 posts since 11 May, 2014

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:18 pm

Kinh wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:28 pm
If pweeple leave a daw like Ableton it's because they're lookin' for somethin' that cannot be found, somethin' that has a magic button dat does all Z work for you. Ya wastin' ya time. Do tha work ya-selves, spend time developin' ya skills. You dig? Dont blame the tools is wha-I'm sayin'.
Who do I blame then for Ableton not having MPE? You? Jesus?

KVRist
225 posts since 19 Oct, 2014

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:27 pm

Interface, mixer, no custom keyboard shortcuts, no plugin management/sorting and CPU usage. The thing I miss, though, is the clip view

KVRist
74 posts since 7 May, 2012

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:13 pm

Still Ableton , Bitwig is not mature enough ... Ableton is still good , and new feature , like idea record , keep me happy ...

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KVRAF
9932 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 pm

Basically, because I got Bitwig - v2.1 at the time I believe - before Live 10 came out.

I would most likely stay with Live if v10 came out sooner, but v9.7 had so many issues* that Bitwig addressed outright it wasn't even funny... Now there's no way to get back - Live seems sluggish and rigid/stiff whenever I need to use it and frankly I only keep a copy to have Push2 firmware up to date and to have access to the few projects I done/started in Live.

* some of those included:
  • no proper high-DPI support: VSTs were very small & Live's GUI sharp
  • no support for trackpad gestures (for zooming & scrolling) on Windows
  • no support for touch screen (I was using Surface Pro 4 then)
  • no definiable keyboard shortcuts
  • no multi-track editing
  • no support for VST3 and 32-bit plugins
  • M4L was unstable and had a very noticeable CPU penalty even when just using LFOs and Env. Followers (this hasn't changed a lot)
  • unflexible GUI for single-screen workflow (e.g. you can't have mixer in arranger, you need to "blindly" move clips between session & arrangement, you can't edit audio clips in session, etc.)
Last edited by antic604 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Music tech enthusiast
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KVRAF
2280 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:23 pm

Because it's flat... that's not short for flattering btw...
THE INTRANCER - KVR S1-Thread | The Intrancersonic-Design Source CGI Software - Presonus Tutorials - 80's / 90's / Electronica - 2D & 3D Art - Film Docs - Amiga Games - VST's - Ensembles - GUI Design Soundcloud 28 | Soundclick 16

KVRist
247 posts since 12 Jan, 2016

Post Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:26 pm

Live didn't support VST3 for my Console 1 to work properly, so i switched to Reaper. Now i have more CPU efficiency, custom shortcuts, subjectively better interface (HYDRA theme) and faster workflow

It was so easy to write full track with only stock plugins, they're incredible, the only thing i missed

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