Frustration with slow development of Ableton Live

[docbot]

Bit of a Rant:

I've been using Live since Version 4 and since I'm hitting 40 soon. I realize how frustrated I am at the slow speed that Ableton is introducing new features, because it feels like I might have one leg in the grave before any substantial new features are arriving. I think even 11.1 has now been longer in beta than an entire update of Studio ONE and FL Studio.

Sure Live 11 was a great update, but most of the features should have been here a long time ago and people have told Ableton so considently for years and considering how incredibly successfull Ableton is, I really don't understand why it takes them this incredibly long to develope and introduce new features. I'm sure they could have recoded Ableton 3 times by now if an old codebase was the problems. And I am not just talkign about obvious useful features that other DAWs had for years I am also talking about creative new features that break us even more free from the traditional DAW layout that has been around forever and is basically mimicing a mixer connected to a multitrack tape machine.

I could think of a hundred things that would make Ableton more fun and easier to use (and not just more complicated) and it's hard to imagine that the devs at Ableton don't have those same ideas. So I am wondering if anybody can explain to me, why it just isn't the case that they're introduced? With all the technological advances all around happening, it really feels like the DAW sector in general should also step up it's game in a serious way. There is so much processing power to be harnessed with GPUs and now even AI acceloration build into chips, I just want to see developers use all this stuff. There isn't even mousewheel support in Live in 2022 We had to wait years for them to fix the pitch bend bug... like wtf

Rant Over

[Tj Shredder]

I'm hitting 40 soon.

2014 at age 58 I jumped on Bitwig… Nothing to regret…
I am hitting 66 soon and still don’t suffer from last minute panic…

[Spencer Maddox]

I'm hoping something special is cooking and thats why its so quiet, maybe a major 11.5 or 12.0 update with a Push3. Until then I am just staying with 10 because it's not worth paying so much for features other programs I use have had for years.

Bitwig does seem to be much more innovative with their releases, and they now have comping too. I think the last main (and significant) advantage really is the hardware integration of Ableton with stuff like the push2 (Never been a fan of the Moss port). But Bitwig really has a-lot of the creative spirit I wish Live had.

[jonljacobi]

Bitwig had a lot further to go and more market to conquer so of course they're developing at a more rapid pace. Live has had everything I need for a very long time. As with most DAWs. It just comes down to UI for me. Live fits me best, so that's what I use.

[andypryce]

They are slow indeed and ignore most basic stuff for years like midi note split, bounce in place, disabled and hidden tracks etc but that is what it is. You either ignore and keep using it or switch to another DAW. I personally stopped expecting any QoL improvements from Live and use it as it is, as a creative starting point and finish the job on Cubase.

[tactile_coast]

Bit of a Rant:

I've been using Live since Version 4 and since I'm hitting 40 soon. I realize how frustrated I am at the slow speed that Ableton is introducing new features, because it feels like I might have one leg in the grave before any substantial new features are arriving.

Give Bitwig a proper tryout, its essentially what Ableton would have developed into by now if the devs had kept up with the pace of their original innovation.

[xbitz]

just check the top-voted user requests first https://bitwish.top/votes especially the "Chopping / slicing audio in the Sampler" one, especially if u use Simpler lot

[antic604]

I don't think you're being fair.

I think all DAWs develop at snail pace, honestly. It's like they've all agreed to retain the status quo and just collect money from the market. All of the DAWs I've used are full of simple things - low hanging fruits - that would make them 10x better, like missing keyboard shortcuts & mouse gestures, some small tweaks to the UI, chaining of already existing features into one button/shortcut to click, etc. I guess the dev teams got so used to their products that they don't see those issues anymore and have built their workflow, setups and habits around it. They probably don't use other DAWs either, because it would immediately become apparent to them what's missing or what could be improved.

[pottering]

Live 11.1 public beta started 28 Sept 2021, it is 15 Jan 2022 as of this post, so it is like 3 1/2 months old.

Don't know the FL and S1 dates, but kinda doubt it really takes them less than 4 months per "entire update".

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/live-11 ... blic-beta/

Live 11 was launched in 23 Feb 2021, so Live 11.1 public beta started 7 months after that.

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/live-11 ... y-23-2021/

Live 11.0.5 (the MPE one) was released 13 July 2021.

https://cdm.link/2021/07/ableton-live-1 ... port-more/

Live 10.1 hit 28 May 2019 more than a year after Live 10 (6 Feb 2018), so 11.1 would have to lag until this May to even equal that.

And I would argue that "faster and bigger updates" seems to make customers LESS patient, demanding even faster and bigger updates, much like addiction.

Why the hell people don't check the actual dates stuff was launched, when making claims about development speed?

For example, Bitwig founders left Ableton around the end of 2008, start of 2009 (you can check their own linkedin profiles).

Live was still v7, it was before even the first Launchpad (Monome and Tenori-On are from 2007, just 2 years before), before Max For Live, years before Push 1 (2012?).

To give an idea of the non-Ableton situation, Reaper was in version v2, Reason v4, Cubase 4.5, Studio One was still Krystal when Bitwig was founded.

[antic604]

For example, Bitwig founders left Ableton around the end of 2008, start of 2009 (you can check their own linkedin profiles).

Live was still v7, it was before even the first Launchpad (Monome and Tenori-On are from 2007, just 2 years before), before Max For Live, years before Push 1 (2012?).

To give an idea of the non-Ableton situation, Reaper was in version v2, Reason v4, Cubase 4.5, Studio One was still Krystal when Bitwig was founded.

All true, but Ableton is also 20-25x bigger as a company than Bitwig is, which means that their dev team is at least 5-10x bigger, too.

I'm not saying I'm not happy with v10 and v11 - quite the opposite, actually - but given the pace and amount of stuff added you'd think they're similarly sized companies.

[pottering]

Ableton was not always their current size, they were way smaller in 2009, they grew several times bigger later, after the Bitwig devs left.

[spliffy_mcweed]

Meanwhile, Skrillex produced legendary tracks on Ableton Live 3 using FM8. Imagine where he would('nt) be if he spent his time complaining on the internet that his software is inadequate. I'm sure he encountered his share of software issues, and worked around them by any means necessary.

Make music now with the tools you have, use them the way the developers intended, and don't worry about the software development process.

[Michael L]

Ableton often says they want to minimise change to keep the workflow easy & familiar. That's their USP.

[Trancit]

Ableton often says they want to minimise change to keep the workflow easy & familiar. That's their USP.

Not necessarily something I would like to hear from a DAW developer...

[Winstontaneous]

I started using Push 2 & Ableton Live at 9.5 with the awesome Cytomic filters, I use Bitwig and Logic as well. I actually appreciate the slowish pace of Live development, it's still the DAW I feel most free & comfortable with, even with lots of Arrangement view editing. I really wish it had vocal tuning & algorithmic drummer like Logic.

Bitwig is a more experimental version of what Live could have been, but IMO isn't a great 1:1 Live replacement (timestretching, quality of internal effects, controller support).