Maybe there is a way to fix the AI problem!? (Let's talk about how we can handle this sh*t)

[bermudagold]

Music PRO GEMA wins landmark ruling against OpenAI over ChatGPT’s use of song lyrics

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/ ... ng-lyrics/

precedent being set...at least in europe...they're also suing SUNO

deezer reports they did a study showing 97% of people cant recognize fully AI music from human music

[VOODOO U]

My goodness! That's horrendous!! I feel this video best explains the monstrosity that is A.I.

[Touch The Universe]

You don't fix the ai problem, the ai problem fixes you

[Bunny_boy]

The young people I know are gamers. Maybe they can get gigs in the army for drone warfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Doom

[Bombadil]

Charming.
Only…the kids I know would lack any initiative to approach the army.
They’d have to get pulled out of their bedrooms or basements by their moms.

[BONES]

We have some members who can't even decide on their artist name, for decades.
That type of dude is far in the majority, and you know it.

Sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about. I've posted a lot of stuff in the last couple of days, the quote is not helpful, it lacks any context.

But I know a fair number of young people and they can’t even write in cursive...

I'm 67 and I can't, either. We were forced to until we went to high school and that, in 1970, was the last time I even tried to write in cursive. The modified cursive we were taught looked so ugly compared to way my parents wrote, I never wanted any part of it, so to this day I use normal print.

Fewer and fewer students are getting degrees in art and the Humanities.

That's because it's a waste of f**king time. The thing you used to get from a BA was the ability to find stuff out for yourself. Since the arrival of the internet, that's pretty much become a complete waste of time, don't you think?

At the expense of going OT a bit, does anyone else say "Thank You" to Chatgpt when you're done asking questions?

No but I always give feedback, like "that's exactly what I was after, you've done a great job".

Music PRO GEMA wins landmark ruling against OpenAI over ChatGPT’s use of song lyrics

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/ ... ng-lyrics/

precedent being set...at least in europe...they're also suing SUNO

If you read the article, you'll see that it's because if you ask ChatGTP for the lyrics to a song, it will provide them for you, just like Google or any of dozens of lyric websites that I can guarantee aren't paying GEMA for their use. It's a nonsense ruling that OpenAI will have no trouble overturning on appeal.

deezer reports they did a study showing 97% of people cant recognize fully AI music from human music

I'm surprised it's only 97% because I don't think I could.

[Starbright]

Why is it pathetic? You *think* you're way to an artistic expression and i *drink* my way to an artistic expression. We all have our ways.

You can't think without some form of artificial help and you don't see how pathetic that is? Really?

And true artist transforms what he/she/they hears, feels and see. Leaving that to ai makes it lesser, enhancing and transforming it with ai is different.

How is it different? To me it's exactly the same thing, not different to using quantize to fix your sloppy playing or an arpeggiator instead o playing the arpeggio in yourself.

I recently tested the new SUNO model and I'm a bit dissapointed: sonically it's better, but it's musical qualities have become more clichee.

How long did you spend on it? 5 minutes? One hour? Whatever, it clearly wasn't long enough to get any useful results. That's no different that judging a DAW on the first demo project you come across. You have to learn how to use it before you can expect decent results.

And when it comes to the argument "a good song is a good song": that's just wrong!
A good song grabs your heart by the throat and makes it feel... joy, sadnes, anger, hate, despair...

And what's stopping an AI generated song from doing that? The "cliches" you referred to above are cliches for a reason.

And I think AI is worsening musical quality

And there are millions of people who said the same thing about synthesisers, about sequencers and about using computers to make music and guess what? They've all been proved wrong over and over. You're just another cliche in a long line of Luddite cliches.

Same with music: you want to hear the artist struggle with the song.

Maybe you do but I f**king don't. In fact, I think that's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard this week. I mean seriously, we're living in a world where Barbie Girl is the 16th best selling single of all time and you want to spruik bullshit like this? Spare me days!

And I'll come back to chess: chess is interesting

Chess is actually not interesting at all. War is interesting, chess is a game.

Now there’ll be a generation of musicians, songwriters who can’t play an instrument, write a song, just generate garbage by pressing a few keys, and inputing a few prompts.

What's a piano piece other than "pressing a few keys"? I've been a performing musician for more than 40 years and I can't play an instrument, so this argument holds no water at all.

Oh wait, we’ve already started down that road.
The world is getting dumber and dumber.

Yes, as is amply evidenced by the ignorance displayed in posts like yours.

Truth be told I have experimented with Suno for 3-5 months now and with the new model 1-2 weeks (so please stop your diffamatory accusations).
Truth is the best you can be when using generativ AI is a producer and curator. The truth is if you don't enjoy writing and creating music, why do it? I mean 40 years and you still can't play an instrument? That's just sad... But hey you do you...
Truth is I would challenge you to a writing duel, but I guess since it's too hard for you anyways it would be as easy as popping a child's balloon.

[zerocrossing]

they can’t even write in cursive

To be fair, neither can I any more and I'm in my 50s. I struggle to even sign my name. Thirty years of keyboard use...

I’m not sure why this is a metric for anything but itself. I don’t know Roman numerals. We just weren’t taught it. The only thing that trips me up is Super Bowl iterations, but I’ve got no interest in that.

[BertKoor]

We have some members who can't even decide on their artist name, for decades.
That type of dude is far in the majority, and you know it.

Sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about. I've posted a lot of stuff in the last couple of days, the quote is not helpful, it lacks any context.

Context: the post right above mine.

[Bombadil]

they can’t even write in cursive

To be fair, neither can I any more and I'm in my 50s. I struggle to even sign my name. Thirty years of keyboard use...

I’m not sure why this is a metric for anything but itself. I don’t know Roman numerals. We just weren’t taught it. The only thing that trips me up is Super Bowl iterations, but I’ve got no interest in that.

It is a skill, developed over millenia, that is no longer taught. I think and articulate more clearly with a pen and paper than a keyboard.
What other things are not really taught? Spelling, grammar, critical thinking, memorization. All relegated to machines or ignored. Why memorize stuff when you can just look it up?

[Bunny_boy]

they can’t even write in cursive

To be fair, neither can I any more and I'm in my 50s. I struggle to even sign my name. Thirty years of keyboard use...

I’m not sure why this is a metric for anything but itself. I don’t know Roman numerals. We just weren’t taught it. The only thing that trips me up is Super Bowl iterations, but I’ve got no interest in that.

It is a skill, developed over millenia, that is no longer taught. I think and articulate more clearly with a pen and paper than a keyboard.
What other things are not really taught? Spelling, grammar, critical thinking, memorization. All relegated to machines or ignored. Why memorize stuff when you can just look it up?

Rote learning is pointless, unless it's axioms in sciences, such as times tables. The Tory govt a few years ago wanted all school kids to learn the order of English / British / UK monarchs - great if you are specialising in history of the area, a waste of time otherwise.
Spelling, grammar, and critical thinking are definitely taught at my kids' school. Doesn't stop the internet influence, mind!
Roman numerals are useless - that's why we don't use them. I suppose you could try and calculate the area under a curve with them, but it would be a hiding to nowhere (actually, would be useful in Slovakia as roman numerals are used for month numbers)

[Bombadil]

There are appropriate areas for rote learning.

[vurt]

What other things are not really taught? Spelling, grammar, critical thinking, memorization. All relegated to machines or ignored. Why memorize stuff when you can just look it up?

these things are taught at school now (in my experience) and from a very young age. ruby is 3 and can already write most of her letters correctly (sometimes gets a few letters backwards, apparently common) and can spell her own name, rosies name and mummy, daddy, nanna. not quite got granddad yet i get cards that could be to the guardian

rosie now 6 is doing grammar and sentence construction, which is a couple of years earlier than i remember kieran doing it.
they seem to be moving to a broader education, not so much test oriented as it is experience.

[Bunny_boy]

There are appropriate areas for rote learning.

Oh totally, like I said, sciences need that automatic recall of information. But learning about the order of kings and queens, prime ministers, etc is not. I would rather they learned about that origins of WWII, antisemitism, free speech and discrimination than being able to list in order all the PMs during the 30s-50s.

(Actually someone said recently - a friend, someone on the radio? - how to spot an AI voice scam: ask them to name, say, all US presidents in alphabetical order)

[BONES]

Truth be told I have experimented with Suno for 3-5 months now and with the new model 1-2 weeks (so please stop your diffamatory accusations).
Truth is the best you can be when using generativ AI is a producer and curator.

If that's true, you must be a lot worse at it than my bandmate.

The truth is if you don't enjoy writing and creating music, why do it?

I don't like doing housework but I like having a clean house so I do it. Similarly, I like having songs to perform on stage so I put up with what's involved in achieving that. Plus, of course, I've got way more cover versions to draw on than original songs so it's not like I put a lot of effort into making new music. My bandmate does most of the heavy lifting there. That's one of many great things about collaboration, you get to concentrate on the aspects of the process that you're best at and/or enjoy more, you don't have to do the whole thing yourself.

I mean 40 years and you still can't play an instrument?

I can't play any more. In the early days I had to be able to play two parts and sing at the same time, which required a fairly high level of skill. But these days I can leave all the hard stuff to the computer and concentrate on my frontman duties, so that's what I do.

Truth is I would challenge you to a writing duel, but I guess since it's too hard for you anyways it would be as easy as popping a child's balloon.

The thing is, I have nothing to prove to you or anybody else, so why would I engage in such a childish endeavour. Let me know when you've topped a chart that means something to you and we'll talk.

I’m not sure why this is a metric for anything but itself. I don’t know Roman numerals. We just weren’t taught it. The only thing that trips me up is Super Bowl iterations, but I’ve got no interest in that.

That's an interesting point, in that a lot of what young people don't know can be attributed to current curriculums. They simply aren't taught the same things we were.

One big thing that I've noticed my whole adult life is how incredibly bad anyone even a few years younger than me is at mental arithmetic. It was a big thing in my primary school days but calculators came along while I was in high school and mental arithmetic became an unnecessary skill and seemed to be dropped from the syllabus in fairly short order. SO it' snot all on the kids, a lot of it is on liberal education.

It is a skill, developed over millenia, that is no longer taught. I think and articulate more clearly with a pen and paper than a keyboard.

Probably because it takes you a lot longer to get things down but it's easy to see why it would be a waste of time forcing students to learn penmanship in this day and age.

Why memorize stuff when you can just look it up?

There's a clue - why learn anything you don't need to learn to get by? That said, I think there is a lot of stuff that used to be taught that probably still should be but, again, that's liberal education for you - the priorities are all f**ked up.

Rote learning is pointless, unless it's axioms in sciences, such as times tables. The Tory govt a few years ago wanted all school kids to learn the order of English / British / UK monarchs - great if you are specialising in history of the area, a waste of time otherwise.

How is general knowledge a waste of time? I often wish I'd been taught the order of English monarchs, it would make it easier to understand the context of many a historical discussion.