Guitar players, The soundclick MP3 demo page got updated !

[Muzik 4 Machines]

The lower part shows the foot plate opened,
this is where the effect knobs and buttons will be.
If they are not needed they will be covered by a solid metal plate.

I wish that instead of a ugly plate on the bottom when you don't need the knobs it would simply diseapear
i dont want to loose screen real estate for a huge grey plate(same mistake than amplitube with their stupid tubes)
please consider that we dont all have 3 screens, some people have 15 inches laptop too

[[ xerocreep ]]

Wow Rene, that new GUI is way better than the crap I was building for you.

I sure hope you send me atester when its all done!

Great project and best of luck!

[_patch]

I must say that factory presets does not do justice to Amplitube and Guitar Rig, so it is not fair to compare them by listening to factory sounds.

I think presets are made to represent a product...
People judge a amp or synth on its presets in the first place.

You compete Guitar-Rig Preset-Sounds with your own well tweaked Sounds. Your Compete isn't fair though. Get the German "Keyboards-Magazin 03-CD" (ist sicherlich available in Thailand... and hear what's possible with Guitar-Rig. Soundclips there are recorded with the Rig-Control's inbuild Preamp.

Please don't get me wrong, Midiworks: I really wish you all the best with your great Amp! For me, your Tones sounds very, very good and it's like the new(?) Hughes&Kettner/Steinberg "Warp2", or something like this, isn't it..? I thought, I heared DSM-Sound... So I'm very curios.

If your Amp-Simulator (without Controller-Features?) is good in the end, I'll maybe buy it. A Pricerange around 200-250,- Euros would be a excaptable one for good Quality and Work, when the result in SOUNDs & FEEL(!) is really that good in the end. But please be fair and remember, that lots of people out there reading this Thread, are not as foolish as you might think or hope, when you compare Sound-Samples in a strange way

I'm looking forward to download a Demo of your Amp within the next three or four weeks, as you said so. Your Idea with reduced Prices for People not living in the States or West-Europe is great social Thinking. I loved this one. Hopefully it works!


Rock'n Roll !!!

[Midiworks]

I must say that factory presets does not do justice to Amplitube and Guitar Rig, so it is not fair to compare them by listening to factory sounds.

I think presets are made to represent a product...
People judge a amp or synth on its presets in the first place.

You compete Guitar-Rig Preset-Sounds with your own well tweaked Sounds. Your Compete isn't fair though.

Actually, I did NOT tweak them well...
1. Set the amount of distortion I wanted.
2. Selected 1 amp stage or 2
3. Selected the speaker simulation
4. Set the eq
5. Added compressor

Really absolutly nothing "well tweaked"...

I think, if a HUGE company, with many payrolls and bills to pay,
is not able to provide good to great factory presets
for $499, then there is something completly wrong.

Get the German "Keyboards-Magazin 03-CD" (ist sicherlich available in Thailand... and hear what's possible with Guitar-Rig. Soundclips there are recorded with the Rig-Control's inbuild Preamp.

No, I cant get that mag here.
Anyay, I really played and tweaked the Guitar-Rig demo.
I could get some nice clean and fx sounds out of it,
but when it came to distorted guitars, no matter how hard I tried,
the results were horrible, sorry.

Amplitube did sound much, much better !

Somebody mentioned Izotope before,
yes, that thing is really great !
I will not give you our kind of warm and fat distortion,
but really very good sound results !

If your Amp-Simulator (without Controller-Features?) is good in the end, I'll maybe buy it. A Pricerange around 200-250,- Euros would be a excaptable one for good Quality and Work, when the result in SOUNDs & FEEL(!) is really that good in the end.

You can use a volume pedal for WahWah an volume.

But please be fair and remember, that lots of people out there reading this Thread, are not as foolish as you might think or hope.

I dont think anybody is foolish but everybody has the right of its kind own of view.

Thank you

[_patch]

I think, if a HUGE company, with many payrolls and bills to pay,
is not able to provide good to great factory presets
for $499, then there is something completly wrong.

I think it depends on the Guitar(s), Pickups etc. Most Presets didn't sound well, because the Person, who tweaked "his" Preset used his Guitar (and Fingers). If another Guitar-Player plays the same Preset with another Guitar, it can sound terrible though. Same "Problem" to the Hardware-Modellers.

Price: Together with Guitar-Rig Software you get Rig-Control, a Footcontroller + Preamp that remote-controls *all* the Guitar-Rig's parameters = I'm pointing out this Feature, with a ca. $100 incl. the Hardware itself (it's maybe even more, because all in all this is much more than just a cheap Gimmick).

I could get some nice clean and fx sounds out of it,
but when it came to distorted guitars, no matter how hard I tried,
the results were horrible, sorry.

Guitar Rig's Amps (Vox, Plexi and Twin) are vintage Amps and naturally not good for Higher-Gain. You really can't have a modern High-Gain Sound out of them in real too. Those Amps are good for Clean and Crunch. But you are right with the "Gratifier". Some nice Sounds comming out of this Amp with the Clean, Raw and Vintage Channel, but the Modern-Channel is horrible and unusable for really good, "modern" High-Gain Sounds Same to the ProCo Rat's Clone "Cat". This one sounds definately like a Cats Fart!

FuzzFace and BigMuff Clones sounds very nice IMHO.

Sorry for a little bit Off-Topic here. I can't wait to test your Amp! I'm always interested in good, newest Amp-, Cab-, Mic- & Speakermodelling for better Home-Recording, seeking allways for the Best and willing to pay for the highest Quality available.

[Cosmic Bandito]

I think, if a HUGE company, with many payrolls and bills to pay,
is not able to provide good to great factory presets
for $499, then there is something completly wrong.

I think it depends on the Guitar(s), Pickups etc. Most Presets didn't sound well, because the Person, who tweaked "his" Preset used his Guitar (and Fingers). If another Guitar-Player plays the same Preset with another Guitar, it can sound terrible though. Same "Problem" to the Hardware-Modellers.

Price: Together with Guitar-Rig Software you get Rig-Control, a Footcontroller + Preamp that remote-controls *all* the Guitar-Rig's parameters = I'm pointing out this Feature, with a ca. $100 incl. the Hardware itself (it's maybe even more, because all in all this is much more than just a cheap Gimmick).

I could get some nice clean and fx sounds out of it,
but when it came to distorted guitars, no matter how hard I tried,
the results were horrible, sorry.

Guitar Rig's Amps (Vox, Plexi and Twin) are vintage Amps and naturally not good for Higher-Gain. You really can't have a modern High-Gain Sound out of them in real too. Those Amps are good for Clean and Crunch. But you are right with the "Gratifier". Some nice Sounds comming out of this Amp with the Clean, Raw and Vintage Channel, but the Modern-Channel is horrible and unusable for really good, "modern" High-Gain Sounds Same to the ProCo Rat's Clone "Cat". This one sounds definately like a Cats Fart!

FuzzFace and BigMuff Clones sounds very nice IMHO.

Sorry for a little bit Off-Topic here. I can't wait to test your Amp! I'm always interested in good, newest Amp-, Cab-, Mic- & Speakermodelling for better Home-Recording, seeking allways for the Best and willing to pay for the highest Quality available.

Patch, I think it good to hear someone explain Amp sims in this context. It's a combination of pickups, guitars & fingers on one end and the what was being 'modeled' on the other end.

Guitar Rig doesn't model Mesa-Boogies and the like. Getting that 'New Metal' sound everyone craves seems difficult so NI probably didn't even want to go there with Guitar Rig (and set them selves up for failure), however it does a nice job for other classic & clean tones.

Amplitube can attempt to get those heavier tones, and IK probably attempted to model modern hi-gain amps, but it just falls too short who want the hi-gain crunch without that 'synthetic' feeling I always get from Amplitube. But if I was a guitar virtuso type, Amplitube would probably be the shit because it can sound good for ripping solos where that sort of sound is needed.

So I think we have to explain these things in context rather than half the forum saying this sounds like shit and vice versa - It's an endless cycle .

Hopefully Midiworks solution will find it's niche - the demos do sound good!

[Beardedone]

You can use a volume pedal for WahWah an volume.

Could you explain how this works!

Thanks,
Gordon

[Midiworks]

You can use a volume pedal for WahWah an volume.

Could you explain how this works!

If you have a midi controler (keyboard ect.)
with a Volume pedal input, you can sent the midi controler to the amp.
You can use this for Volume or WahWah.

That just gave me another idea,
you could use the sustain pedal of a keybord
to switch amp channels.

[CatBoy]

There is obviously alot more going on behind the scenes than I thought.
I would think 250.00 is acceptable.

I like some of the demos you have but I have one question.
Does the sim make an over abundant hiss when distortion levels are raised?

The reason I ask this is because contrary to most peoples thinking distortion does not make hiss....bad compontents do.

If I crank up my Peavey 5150 to moderate distortion levels I get an unbearable amount of hiss. alot like amplitube
Now,cranking up my Bogner or my best friends custom Soldano I have to crank the pre-gain to 8-10 to get any hiss at all.
Michael Soldano stated quality of parts makes the biggest difference...and a quality preamp tube,of course

any feedback on this?

[Lunch Money]

By that token, the only way to answer the question would be to have a pristine signal path.

If the testing is done with a hissy pre-amp or signal path, then it's pretty hard to tell if it's the sim or the path.

Now, in the virtual world, you should be able to just crank the amp with no input at all to see if it 'hisses' on its own, but in reality it won't really work out that way for 2 reasons:

1. Distortion and other sim algos do not do anything until they have input. With a 'silence' signal, it's receiving nothing but pure zeroes, so unless the coder intentionally modelled 'hiss', there will be none. Even the noisiest, crappiest algo still needs a few ones with those zeroes to be heard.

2. Some (ie. most or all!) sequencers won't simply allow you to isolate a track and crank a plug-in. You need to 'arm' the track to hear anything at all, and you can't arm a track that hasn't been assigned an input device.

So, a lot of it will still come down to external, physical components. Are you using Behringer's "Invisible Mic Pres" (ha ha) or a pristine desk?

Greg

[CatBoy]

No,my signal path is clear.
I have tried different preamps and sound cards etc.
All give me same results.
Whether its my mackie 24/8 pre's or thru my MOTU 2408mk3

But what I'm saying is the amp sim in clean mode is crystal clear.
But using heavier distortion tones I get unbearable amounts of hiss.
Yes,there are ways of getting rid of most of it but if I mike the bogner I get 0 hiss.
I would like to just plug in and go if you will.
Carrying the head and cab as opposed to my laptop....well,you get my drift

[AndrewSimon]

$250 ?
Well I will pay even $500 but the product will have to seriously impress me.
Low CPU use, stability, great sounding CLEAN post effects (clean digital reverb AND low CPU?),
and most of all very realistic CLEAN tube sound.
If this product can deliver it , I will buy it.

I don't think it will happen but let's hope I am wrong.

[Sascha Franck]

His is indeed a problem with many amp sims - I seriously wonder why. And, to confirm CatBoy, yes, the 5150, even while sounding great IMO, is extremely noisy. I once thought about buying one, but when I listened to it at moderately higher gain settings the noise became a nightmare.

On the other hand (just as with your Bogner), at comparably high gain settings my Boogie MarkIV is almost dead silent, using the very same input sources.

Now, with software it shouldn't be that the circuit itself would be causing any trouble, as using high quality components should be no deal at all.
But that only seems to be like it in theory.
I just tried out three amp sims parallely yesterday, using the powerbook of a friend and an M-Audio Firewire (which has very good High-Z instrument inputs). Amplitube was horrible, Guitar Amp Pro was even worse while Guitar Rig was way better. Only the latter behaved like a quality amp - noise only occured when we raised Guitar Rigs preamp gain a lot.

[ghost666]

Guitar Rig doesn't model Mesa-Boogies and the like...NI probably didn't even want to go there with Guitar Rig (and set them selves up for failure)...

What are you talking about?

What, exactly, do you think the Gratifier is trying to be?

...a Boogie & a Rectifier at that!

Ok... sure, the NI developers have yet to get the sound right, but contrary to your statement above - they definitely "went there!" & obviously without notions or regard for "setting themselves up for failiure!"

IMHO it was plug of the year last year!
Can't wait to get ahold of Amplitube 2 & Midiworks' one though!

Peace, LOL

[Midiworks]

There is obviously alot more going on behind the scenes than I thought.
I would think 250.00 is acceptable.

I like some of the demos you have but I have one question.
Does the sim make an over abundant hiss when distortion levels are raised?

The demos Rik played are quite noisy,
I think he used a bad guitar cable and/or
bad shielded guitar to close to the Pc screen,
or maybe both.

As you can hear, all other demos are quite clean when
using high distorted sounds.

Guitar Rig doesn't model Mesa-Boogies and the like...NI probably didn't even want to go there with Guitar Rig (and set them selves up for failure)...

What are you talking about?

What, exactly, do you think the Gratifier is trying to be?

...a Boogie & a Rectifier at that!

Please ask Sascha Franck what he thinks about it,
as he just said before, he owns a Boogie.

I personally think, a gui that resembles the Boogie/Rectifier,
does not make it a Boogie !
If a Boogie would sound bad like that,
who would have ever bought one ?