KVR Audio

Dazza3311 · Post by **Dazza3311** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:56 pm

As a sampler can anyone tell me which one is better? And can Kontakt use sampletank XL2 sounds? If I brought both would that set me up totally?

Derek up North · Post by **Derek up North** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:11 pm

Dazza3311 wrote:As a sampler can anyone tell me which one is better? And can Kontakt use sampletank XL2 sounds? If I brought both would that set me up totally?

I've got Kontakt and Sampletank 2 L (same functionality as XL but with fewer sounds). I must confess that I've not really got into Kontakt much so I can't really do an "A vs B" comparision for you.

As with most things, one of the main factors is the kind of music you're trying to make. If you're looking for synth sounds rather than real instrument sounds then you should also take a look at Sonic Synth 2 (demo available for download from www.esoundz.com I think).

I would say (having just bought it) that if you're looking for a general purpose workstation you really must look at Manystation (there is a forum for Manytone here at KvR). You've just missed out on the introductory special offer price (life's like that isn't it !) but it's still a massive bargain.

Too many great products, not enough money (or time)

Regards,

Derek.

Derek up North · Post by **Derek up North** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:14 pm

Oops - just reread your post and noticed that you specified "as a sampler". I was thinking from the point of view of playing sample-based sounds rather than doing the actual sampling. This is something I've not tried yet so I'm afraid I can't help you at all.

Regards,

Derek.

Dazza3311 · Post by **Dazza3311** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:40 pm

Thanks anyway, it all helps so much on the market, need to gets software that works for me. I am a composer that needs a whole genre of instruements.

jeffn1 · Post by **jeffn1** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:47 pm

I think they are pretty different. Sampletank 2 includes a huge number of varied samples, but is very limited interms of what samples it can import. I do tno believe Sampletank 2 has disk streaming, which would tend to limit the size of the samples it can use.

Kontakt has a smaller set of included samples, which, I have been led to beleive are not that great overall (I hear Kompakt's included samples are better!). But Kompakt has disk streaming and is becoming a defactoo standard for high end sample libraries (overtaking Giga?).

I think both have a lot of sample mangling capabilities, but I don't know much about that.

So, (aside from looking and Manystation, Sonic Synth 2, etc), I think you choice between these two depend, in part, whether you want a very large number of included samples, or whether you want Sampler that will allow you to play and mangle high end third party libraries, where disk streaming is important (including the ability to edit samples that are included in Konpakt players).

jeffn1

Derek up North · Post by **Derek up North** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:31 pm

I forgot - a whole slew of new things got announced at NAMM recently which might be of interest. I know that Sonic Reality announced a new orchestral sample set ("Philharmonik") which might be of interest.

You could also take a look at this thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... av&start=0

for some ideas.

Regards,

Derek.

asseca · Post by **asseca** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:58 pm

My observation:

PRO:
ST2 has good built-in effects
ST2 Samples are overall good from both IK and SR

CON:
ST2 has a really weak preset system
ST2 has no MIDI-learn for CC-controls

I really hope that IK will do something about the MIDI implementation in the near future...

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:13 pm

asseca wrote:My observation:

PRO:
ST2 has good built-in effects
ST2 Samples are overall good from both IK and SR

CON:
ST2 has a really weak preset system
ST2 has no MIDI-learn for CC-controls

I really hope that IK will do something about the MIDI implementation in the near future...

sampletank has midi controls - OK you ahve to know what cc your using to automate the parameter so its not as fast as kontakt's

also kontakt 2 is what will be getting bought - or at least a free upgrade - i think it wil have a much bigger libarary ,it has the new scripting language for realsitic guitar strums and orchestral playing styles and an impulse player and library

so in favour of kontakt

very flexible
disk streams
reads most sample formants (but not sampletank !)
great for sample mangling
beat slicer

less good

the fx are pretty dull
less comprehensive (in the sense of amount of instruments) sample library - which is probably smaller in GB too.

i'd try the sampletank free and see what you think of it's capabilities - cos if it does what you need it will be the simpler option - cos chances are if you get kontakt 2 you will need to buy other libraries and deal with the conversions and managing the presets etc

but the best of the two of them if money is not a problem is kontakt

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:51 pm

In defense of Kontakt's built-in library, it's limited in scope, but quite good (if you ask me). Fantastic sampled acoustic/electric guitars and basses, as well as some nice pianos, are worth the price alone. The percussive sections are quite good too. The 'best of synth' isn't as useful to me because I have all the synths the patches were sampled from.. but they're not bad in and of themselves.

Pokeye · Post by **Pokeye** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:51 pm

I use both...I find sampletank to be a good all-around utility sample player, but only a few of the sounds are stellar. It also has trouble with Akai conversions-especially tuning problems. I can usually find a workable sound in its vast collection, however

I use Kontakt for sounds I have created or for more high-quality stuff that will be exposed. Kontakt has very powerful features to create realistic parts. I agree that the sounds bundled with Kontakt are mediocre in general, although the drumsets are quite usable. It also supports a lot of different formats.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:05 pm

Dazza3311 wrote:As a sampler can anyone tell me which one is better? And can Kontakt use sampletank XL2 sounds? If I brought both would that set me up totally?

Get both and a lot of music can be made. You can't read your ST2 sounds from Kontakt or visa versa but the two offer very different features that are complementary to each other. Think of ST2XL more like a sound module workstation (also Sonik Synth 2 is good for this in addition). Think of Kontakt more as a sampler with great editing capabilities. Between the two pieces you can really do a lot.

Some libraries from my company, SR, actually are made to work in BOTH SampleTank 2 and Kontakt from the same box. In fact, you might want to get in this: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 49&start=0 It's the last day today though but if you had both Kontakt and ST2 then you wouldn't want to miss it.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:31 pm

Perhaps because I've been around awhile, and my first sampler was an Emu Emax, I tend not to evaluate samplers based on the provided library of existing samples. To me, a sampler is meant to be used exactly like a synthesizer, but with digitized audio instead of analogue oscillators.

With this in mind, Kontakt is by far the best soft-sampler to come along in years! The sound sculpting and manipulating capabilities of Kontakt are vast, and I'm not even taling about the fantastic new additions to v2 (a scripting language

, built in convolution...) For my money, the only things which compete with Kontakt are Reaktor and the Kurzweil K2000 (and a few others...), both with a much steeper learning curve.

SampleTank on the other hand is a fairly basic, typical sample playback engine with some sound manipulation options and an extensive library of included sounds. *Yawn* I just don't see SampleTank ever including its own scripting language, if you know what I mean...

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:34 am

You really have to know how you are going to use a sampler before working out if something as boutique as Kontakt is going to be for you.

If you really want to use a sampler to its capacity in terms of making your own soundsets, loading wavs in and mangling them - creating weird instruments out of farting noises .... (all that serious stuff), something like Kontakt is going to be a Rolls Royce option.

If your idea of a sampler is something that plays back great sample libraries, then Kontakt is also a pretty good option actually. But if you happen to be quite taken with the very large and relatively inexpensive libraries on offer from companies like IKMultimedia and Sonic Reality then SampleTank2 is a terrific option.

As a playback engine I find it to be more than adequate with some fantastic built in effects and also a pretty high personal rating on ease of use.

For me, there was no question that I want both types. I got VSampler3 (insert Kontakt for Rolls Royce option) for creating my own instruments, or importing some of the great Giga, Kontakt, EXS, Halion, SF2 libraries, and because I liked the inexpensive but high quality/content libraries of Sonic Reality I purchases SampleTank2 as well.

As far as I'm concerned - it's all good.

Caleb

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:58 am

deastman wrote:Perhaps because I've been around awhile, and my first sampler was an Emu Emax, I tend not to evaluate samplers based on the provided library of existing samples. To me, a sampler is meant to be used exactly like a synthesizer, but with digitized audio instead of analogue oscillators.

With this in mind, Kontakt is by far the best soft-sampler to come along in years! The sound sculpting and manipulating capabilities of Kontakt are vast, and I'm not even taling about the fantastic new additions to v2 (a scripting language , built in convolution...) For my money, the only things which compete with Kontakt are Reaktor and the Kurzweil K2000 (and a few others...), both with a much steeper learning curve.

SampleTank on the other hand is a fairly basic, typical sample playback engine with some sound manipulation options and an extensive library of included sounds. *Yawn* I just don't see SampleTank ever including its own scripting language, if you know what I mean...

So it needs to include its own scripting language to be exciting? I don't think so. Also, I agree with a lot of what you said and of course I like those products you mentioend too. But, dismissing SampleTank as just a typical sample playback engine is actually a mistake. It's sample technology rivals many of today's samplers, even that of Kontakt2 in some areas. STRETCH is far beyond Tone Machine and the NEW Stretch which I have had the privaledge to work with (the one in ST2.1- a FREE update to all ST2 users) is even better. Then there are convenience features like Loop Sync that are not so common either. The PS/TS engine as well is not something you see everyday (apart from Kontakt, how many other samplers have pitch shift and time stretching with real time control? Not that many actually). But, of course, you can't forget that ST2 as a playback engine is anything but typical in its built-in effects which include amp models and tube outboard gear including a modeled Fairchild as one out of 32 effects available to you.

So, scripting languages are nice but you think anyone listening to your music knows if you used a scripting language or not? (or cares?). Hey, I like scripting languages too. Kontakt 2 is going to be amazing. Everyone that likes to get deep into programming should own it. But so is SampleTank 2 and everyone should own that too. Of course, that's my opinion but it's good advice. Just saying you shouldn't dismiss it as being typical because it is anything but that.

Cheers.

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:21 am

People need to stop comparing apples and oranges. Sampletank is NOT a softsampler like Kontakt, Halion. Gigastudio, VSampler, Mach Five..etc. Sampletank is more or less a Rompler. It does not have all the sample deveopers around the world developing libraries for it, and it cannot use the vast collection of premium sample libraries available around the world the way a real sampler could. All the sounds available for Sampletank are not what I would call true premium quality stuff--at least not compared to the highend thousand dollar libraries. You get Sampletank because you want a wide selection of sounds for a much cheaper price, at an acceptable quality. However, you'd be fooling yourself if you think you could use Sampletank and get the same quality of sound/editing capability as you would with true samplers like Kontakt/Halion/Gigastudio..etc. They are two different species of animals altogether.

Kontakt vs Sampletank XL 2