Ives

[aMUSEd]

Don't seem to hear much about Charles Ives here despite the preponderence of americans. Makes me wonder how well known he is even in his own country. I consider him to be one of the greatest composers ever - his 4th symphony is just astonishing and I also love his smaller pieces including his songs which are less well known - I have a wonderful recording of Roberta Alexander (who is an awesome singer) singing his complete songs. I like his playfulness, his intellect, his ability to surprise me and most of all his disdain for the so called rules of music.

[Ildon]

Ives isn't a very well known composer, I don't think. He's definitely not a household name like Philip Glass or Brian Eno. His music wasn't very accessible, so I guess a lot of people overlook him, despite his impact on modern music.

[shamann]

The general American musical establishment doesn't seem to have placed a particularly high importance on a lot of American composers: Ives, Cowell, Partch, Cage, Feldman, Nancarrow, etc.

Even relatively popular composers like Copland and Adams aren't exactly household names. I'm not sure why that is, really. It's a shame, because there are some great composers there. Maybe it's a case of Europe envy. I'm willing to bet more Americans have heard the names Dvorak (sorry couldn't seem to type the r with a hacek) or Stravinsky than Ives or Cowell.

[Equilibrium]

The general American musical establishment doesn't seem to have placed a particularly high importance on a lot of American composers: Ives, Cowell, Partch, Cage, Feldman, Nancarrow, etc.

Even relatively popular composers like Copland and Adams aren't exactly household names. I'm not sure why that is, really. It's a shame, because there are some great composers there. Maybe it's a case of Europe envy. I'm willing to bet more Americans have heard the names Dvorak (sorry couldn't seem to type the r with a hacek) or Stravinsky than Ives or Cowell.

It takes a seriously long time to become a household name, particularly in a culture like ours, and on a planet with 6 billion people. Give them a couple hundred more years, and hope the planet doesn't turn it's back on orchestral music, then if they have made it then their golden. to be honest though, and purely opinion of course, I don't know that any of the names mentioned then would actually fit that bill. I would bet that Miles Davis and John Coltrane and Duke Ellington will be America's most famous composers.

A composer has to really stick out from the crowd (I mean big, big time) much like Eric Satie. Although Eric Satie's music was very simple, and there isn't much of it it is very unique. Still, no one cared about him when when he was alive much...

[Bassballjg]

The general American musical establishment doesn't seem to have placed a particularly high importance on a lot of American composers: Ives, Cowell, Partch, Cage, Feldman, Nancarrow, etc.

Even relatively popular composers like Copland and Adams aren't exactly household names. I'm not sure why that is, really. It's a shame, because there are some great composers there. Maybe it's a case of Europe envy. I'm willing to bet more Americans have heard the names Dvorak (sorry couldn't seem to type the r with a hacek) or Stravinsky than Ives or Cowell.

It takes a seriously long time to become a household name, particularly in a culture like ours, and on a planet with 6 billion people. Give them a couple hundred more years, and hope the planet doesn't turn it's back on orchestral music, then if they have made it then their golden. to be honest though, and purely opinion of course, I don't know that any of the names mentioned then would actually fit that bill. I would bet that Miles Davis and John Coltrane and Duke Ellington will be America's most famous composers.

A composer has to really stick out from the crowd (I mean big, big time) much like Eric Satie. Although Eric Satie's music was very simple, and there isn't much of it it is very unique. Still, no one cared about him when when he was alive much...

I probably know more about Ives biographically than I have ever heard his music. You are onto something in mentioning Ellington, et al, in that when Americans think of American-made "serious art music", we are far more likely to think of Jazz, which sort of took over that space in our consciousness after rock and r&b replaced Jazz as pop music in the 50's. From that point and through the 60's and 70's to now, Jazz became respectable in academia, but since it had been pop, its greats were better known than Americans composing in the European orchestral tradition and in the avant-garde movements that sprang from that millieu, eg Cage, Ives, etc, who were relatively obscure beyond academic circles and hardcore classical fans anyway.

aMUSEd, would you make some suggestions of Ives pieces to listen to? I do think of him from time to time and want to hear his work, but it would be good to get some tips from a knowledgable fan of his.

[aMUSEd]

Well the "4th Symphony" I mentioned is just mind blowing and more pioneering than much of Schonberg even. "3 Places in New England" is also amazing. If you like sung works check out the 2 volumes of "Charles Ives Songs" by Roberta Alexander (soprano) & Tan Crone (piano) - these are imho the best collections of his highly idiosyncratic but passionate and beautiful vocal works (though Jan deGaetani also does some good ones) - for example "Like a Sick Eagle" is stunning.

[aMUSEd]

Come on - there must be some Ives fans here.

[herodotus]

Come on - there must be some Ives fans here.

I love him.

My personal fave is of course "The Unanswered Question", which is very short (3-4- minutes) but otherwise truly impossible to describe. Buy it; download it; listen to it somehow.

His "greatest" is probably his Concord Sonata.













More later my wife and I have to go get coffee.

[VicDiesel]

Come on - there must be some Ives fans here.

You rang?

I've made a couple of attempts to play the Concord Sonata, but had to give up after a bar or two. Ok, a beat or two.

His chamber music is a bit harder to get into than the orchestral works, but very nifty nevertheless. One piece that's somewhat "popular" is The Unanswered Question. That's the kind of piece that everyone easily can get into, and it's only 5 minutes or so long.

Ives is an interesting composer in any number of ways. For instance, he was very impractical. The 4th symphony has both a concertante piano part and a four-handed orchestral piano. There is one trumpet part that only plays one long note in one of the movements. Oh, and the Concord Sonata (for piano solo) has 8 bars of viola and a page of flute.

But apart from all that, I just love his music.

[Hovmod]

I love Ives, too. Central Park in the dark. yum...
I can't seem to get enough of the sonatas for violin and piano. Fantastic.

[nuffink]

I would bet that Miles Davis and John Coltrane and Duke Ellington will be America's most famous composers.

For sure.

[Hovmod]

I would bet that Miles Davis and John Coltrane and Duke Ellington will be America's most famous composers.

For sure.

250 years from now? Michael Jackson and Madonna.