Well, I have already went to work. I have the tracker working as we speak! I will launch it either tomorrow night or Wednesday. There are a few things I need, so I will ask, for anyone who may want to help.
I've actually been thinking alot about this torrent site, and have lots of ideas. Just a few things already implemented:
Integrated forums(and possibly chat)
Sharing of all types of files(legally), including samples, impulses, software, and even your own music!
Links area, for the files we don't host on this to be linked to.
A request area, for those who are looking for something
There's much more there, but those are a few things. I will announce when it's ready. If you are already knowledgable with torrents, and can test for me, please PM me so that I can let you know.
I'll announce more needs tomorrow or Wednesday. I'm open to any ideas!
Brent
We need a GOOD new soundfont database site
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 500 posts since 13 Oct, 2004 from Durham, NC USA
Hey, I can't wait to see it!
Where could I find out about torrents? I'm knowledgeable about net stuff in general (I write packet schlepping code for Cisco as my day job), I just don't know anything about torrents.
And I'm willing to help, though I'd most likely need to learn whatever languages & applications you're using. But I learn fast, especially when starting with a working prototype. In other words, I can offer time and programming ability, but not any expert knowledge in the subject areas (other than soundfonts & such).
Finally, while I'm sure it's possible to create a solution for "anything", what I really think we need is something that focuses on good classification of soundfonts (and other sampler formats). The problem with many generic approaches is that they often suffer for any particular application. But sometimes you CAN have it both ways, and that would be the best approach if we can make it work.
Cheers
Jeff
Where could I find out about torrents? I'm knowledgeable about net stuff in general (I write packet schlepping code for Cisco as my day job), I just don't know anything about torrents.
And I'm willing to help, though I'd most likely need to learn whatever languages & applications you're using. But I learn fast, especially when starting with a working prototype. In other words, I can offer time and programming ability, but not any expert knowledge in the subject areas (other than soundfonts & such).
Finally, while I'm sure it's possible to create a solution for "anything", what I really think we need is something that focuses on good classification of soundfonts (and other sampler formats). The problem with many generic approaches is that they often suffer for any particular application. But sometimes you CAN have it both ways, and that would be the best approach if we can make it work.
Cheers
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
I'm actually using PHP and MySQL, just standard web server stuff. I'm no expert in coding, but I know enough to modify current apps and such to a certain extent.
To learn about BT, here are a couple of websites:
http://www.bittorrent.com/faq.myt - the official BT website
http://btfaq.com/serve/cache/1.html
http://www.portforward.com - help with setting up your router/firewall
BT is actually very easy to use. Sometimes the "instructions" make it harder then it really is. Basically, you download a client. This will be kind of like an FTP client, but made for bittorrent(there are a ton of them available). Then you go to a tracker(which is what I'm making) and search or browse for what files you want.
Then, you don't actually download the file, but you download the .torrent file. You load this into your client and it will try to locate everyone else with the file and download bits and pieces from each one, all while sharing what YOU have from that file with them!
1. It's very safe. You don't have a download directory. You just share whatever files you have clicked to share. The torrent file allows you to keep track of your "ratio", so you can see what percentage you've given as opposed to what you've taken.
It really is easy, easier then I have made it. The above sites will explain it better, especially the first one, since it is from the developer of the bittorrent protocol.
I'll give more info when the tracker is launched. If anyone wants to help, in ANY way, please let me know. I will outline a couple of things soon, as soon as I work out the little issues with the script(getting everything to work together).
Just PM me if there is something you can help with! Thanks!
Brent
To learn about BT, here are a couple of websites:
http://www.bittorrent.com/faq.myt - the official BT website
http://btfaq.com/serve/cache/1.html
http://www.portforward.com - help with setting up your router/firewall
BT is actually very easy to use. Sometimes the "instructions" make it harder then it really is. Basically, you download a client. This will be kind of like an FTP client, but made for bittorrent(there are a ton of them available). Then you go to a tracker(which is what I'm making) and search or browse for what files you want.
Then, you don't actually download the file, but you download the .torrent file. You load this into your client and it will try to locate everyone else with the file and download bits and pieces from each one, all while sharing what YOU have from that file with them!
1. It's very safe. You don't have a download directory. You just share whatever files you have clicked to share. The torrent file allows you to keep track of your "ratio", so you can see what percentage you've given as opposed to what you've taken.
It really is easy, easier then I have made it. The above sites will explain it better, especially the first one, since it is from the developer of the bittorrent protocol.
I'll give more info when the tracker is launched. If anyone wants to help, in ANY way, please let me know. I will outline a couple of things soon, as soon as I work out the little issues with the script(getting everything to work together).
Just PM me if there is something you can help with! Thanks!
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Also, what are you talking about with "classification" of soundfonts? Sorry, I just want to understand what you're saying.
I guess I didn't respond to your whole post. But I did mention the languages being used, neither of which I'm an expert at myself. However, I will be needing other things, which I will outline later. But I am very open to ideas as to what to do. I will open this as a "beta" release at first for people to try and to pick apart. Then, hopefully with some help, I can technically launch the site and get some people to help spread the word. A torrent site works best with more people.
Just a reminder to anyone concerned. Only legal torrents will be allowed here. Either something you have created, or something you have the permission/license to distribute.
But with torrents, you don't have to worry about using server bandwidth, or draining your website. That is a very good thing. Bittorrent was created for good uses, and this is one of them. This is how filesharing is supposed to be. And it's completely safe. Clean clients, well supported software, etc. I think some people will be pleasantly surprised.
Brent
I guess I didn't respond to your whole post. But I did mention the languages being used, neither of which I'm an expert at myself. However, I will be needing other things, which I will outline later. But I am very open to ideas as to what to do. I will open this as a "beta" release at first for people to try and to pick apart. Then, hopefully with some help, I can technically launch the site and get some people to help spread the word. A torrent site works best with more people.
Just a reminder to anyone concerned. Only legal torrents will be allowed here. Either something you have created, or something you have the permission/license to distribute.
But with torrents, you don't have to worry about using server bandwidth, or draining your website. That is a very good thing. Bittorrent was created for good uses, and this is one of them. This is how filesharing is supposed to be. And it's completely safe. Clean clients, well supported software, etc. I think some people will be pleasantly surprised.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 500 posts since 13 Oct, 2004 from Durham, NC USA
Hey, thanks for the great capsule summary. I think I get the drift!
I want to learn PHP anyway -- I normally write scripts using Python, or /bin/sh & ksh (unix shell scripts). I've never used SQL or MySQL or any database stuff, but I once learned the basic concepts.
Categorization is so we can find what we're looking for without hoping for google-like matches on text.
The first level of categorization would be for the kind of thing you're looking for (considering only audio for now, and ignoring completed songs):
- sampled instrument
- soundbank: set of sample instruments (e.g., GM soundfont)
- raw samples (e.g., sound FX)
- loops (MIDI or audio segments intended to be looped)
- impulse files (for convolution engines / reverb plugins)
In any of these categories, there are important subcategories. For exmaple, for "sampled instrument" we have the usual instrument classifications, something like this:
- piano/clavichord/harpsichord (acoustic or electric)
- organ
- string sections
- string solo
- brass section
- brass solo
etc.
This can be implemented using attributes so that something can fall into more than one category (as so often happens, just as it does for song genres).
Furthermore, we'd want an attribute for file formats. Sometimes we want only a given format, but many of us know that we can convert between formats so we don't care whether it's a soundfont or a gigastudio file or whatever.
One of the problems I have with sf2midi is that if I'm looking for a piano sound, its search engine offers up every soundbank that happens to have a piano -- but I'm only interested in a high quality piano sound by itself, not a cheesy one stuffed in among a gazillion other sounds. Thus the distinction between sampled instruments and "soundbanks", even though the same file format serves both purposes.
Cheers,
Jeff
I want to learn PHP anyway -- I normally write scripts using Python, or /bin/sh & ksh (unix shell scripts). I've never used SQL or MySQL or any database stuff, but I once learned the basic concepts.
Categorization is so we can find what we're looking for without hoping for google-like matches on text.
The first level of categorization would be for the kind of thing you're looking for (considering only audio for now, and ignoring completed songs):
- sampled instrument
- soundbank: set of sample instruments (e.g., GM soundfont)
- raw samples (e.g., sound FX)
- loops (MIDI or audio segments intended to be looped)
- impulse files (for convolution engines / reverb plugins)
In any of these categories, there are important subcategories. For exmaple, for "sampled instrument" we have the usual instrument classifications, something like this:
- piano/clavichord/harpsichord (acoustic or electric)
- organ
- string sections
- string solo
- brass section
- brass solo
etc.
This can be implemented using attributes so that something can fall into more than one category (as so often happens, just as it does for song genres).
Furthermore, we'd want an attribute for file formats. Sometimes we want only a given format, but many of us know that we can convert between formats so we don't care whether it's a soundfont or a gigastudio file or whatever.
One of the problems I have with sf2midi is that if I'm looking for a piano sound, its search engine offers up every soundbank that happens to have a piano -- but I'm only interested in a high quality piano sound by itself, not a cheesy one stuffed in among a gazillion other sounds. Thus the distinction between sampled instruments and "soundbanks", even though the same file format serves both purposes.
Cheers,
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
I see what you're saying. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with categories. I can currently add top level categories, but I don't know how I can add further categories. But I'm working on it. It may take an extra day or so to figure it all out, but I'm sure I'll get it.
I'll keep you posted.
Brent
I'll keep you posted.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Great news! I have the subcategory option! I decided to completely trash my installation and use a different script, with better support and IMO, better features. The forum is now working, as well as everything else that I can see. Now I just have to change settings to coincide with what I'm trying to do, and I'll be ready for testing!
Remember, if anyone has any ideas, please let me know ASAP! I am willing to do this work if people are willing to use it, and give feedback. Remember, this is the next best option to Hammersound and sf2midi.com but it will cost me time and even a bit of money. But I think this can become very cool.
Back to work! But I will not post much more until tonight, as I will be gone for a few hours. But it's coming along.
Brent
Remember, if anyone has any ideas, please let me know ASAP! I am willing to do this work if people are willing to use it, and give feedback. Remember, this is the next best option to Hammersound and sf2midi.com but it will cost me time and even a bit of money. But I think this can become very cool.
Back to work! But I will not post much more until tonight, as I will be gone for a few hours. But it's coming along.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 500 posts since 13 Oct, 2004 from Durham, NC USA
If it works out, we can probably find a good host site. Maybe audioshots would be interested. Guido at soundfonts.it offered to host my sf file. He might be interested in this too, as long as it doesn't chew up his time. (In the first two days I had it posted, the 30 MB file was downloaded 1000 times, chewing up 4 times my monthly bandwidth allotment! Fortunately my service provider was very cool about it.)
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Well, one thing I will be looking for is some kind of hosting. I am using my hosting right now, but if traffic gets to the point where it starts straining the server, I have to move it. Torrents save a bit in bandwidth because you are not downloading from the server. However, the torrent software periodically checks, or "announces" an update on how many people are seeding and how many are downloading, as well as other information. The problem is that you can manually announce, and people do this to get faster speeds. But this strains the server even more.
If this gets going, we could possibly sell ads on the site and I have already been getting a donation button up, with a target and current donation number being listed. So we can start small. But if it works, then donations will help it move. Mind you, I'm paying for the space right now and stuff.
One thing I haven't gotten yet, because I just didn't want to add any more on, is a domain name. It's operating on a subfolder of my "catch all" domain. So if I could even get ten bucks donated from somebody to pay for the domain, I would set their ratio on the site to always be high. But I will detail this and ask again if nobody volunteers.
I'm working right now on it. But I got to get some dinner. So I'll get more done later.
Brent
If this gets going, we could possibly sell ads on the site and I have already been getting a donation button up, with a target and current donation number being listed. So we can start small. But if it works, then donations will help it move. Mind you, I'm paying for the space right now and stuff.
One thing I haven't gotten yet, because I just didn't want to add any more on, is a domain name. It's operating on a subfolder of my "catch all" domain. So if I could even get ten bucks donated from somebody to pay for the domain, I would set their ratio on the site to always be high. But I will detail this and ask again if nobody volunteers.
I'm working right now on it. But I got to get some dinner. So I'll get more done later.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Ok, I'm thinking through the categories. But here's the problem. If I go into great detail when classifying, I could end up with a TON of categories. So I'm trying to think of a logical way to organize samples. Are there any sites that do a good job of it that I can look at?
I want to be able to organize formats, instrument types,etc. I currently don't have it so I can have multiple categories for a file. But I'll look into it.
Brent
I want to be able to organize formats, instrument types,etc. I currently don't have it so I can have multiple categories for a file. But I'll look into it.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 500 posts since 13 Oct, 2004 from Durham, NC USA
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 500 posts since 13 Oct, 2004 from Durham, NC USA
One worry I have about bittorrent is that I would expect it to need a lot of participants before it would work very well. But let's go for it, and try to get a few folks to agree on a small set of really good soundfonts to host to seed the thing.
Actually, that's one of the big benefits we can offer: selecting the wheat from the chaff, since there's so much chaff. We wont find ourselves hosting stuff we thing is crap!
I agree completely with Marce's point that what we want to focus on is quality, not quantity.
Actually, that's one of the big benefits we can offer: selecting the wheat from the chaff, since there's so much chaff. We wont find ourselves hosting stuff we thing is crap!
I agree completely with Marce's point that what we want to focus on is quality, not quantity.
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- KVRAF
- 1714 posts since 14 Mar, 2003 from Israel
Agreed. It seems that people on the net just like avoid editing content - everything is "print worthy". While this is great for places like KvR, it results in sf2midi-like chaos when applied to a large databse.learjeff wrote:Actually, that's one of the big benefits we can offer: selecting the wheat from the chaff, since there's so much chaff. We wont find ourselves hosting stuff we thing is crap!
I agree completely with Marce's point that what we want to focus on is quality, not quantity.
This site should also make sure that sharing the samples (and the samples themselves) are 100% legit and come with the license attached. The license should be displayed clearly on the site in a human-readable way - I just discarded most of my free soundfonts because I have no idea wether theyr'e legal and what limitations the license have. I discarded others because I find out license was too limiting.
Creative Commons licensing should be encouraged, I think (though not mandatory).
CubaseStudio4 µTonic/Rapture Nitro/GS-201/Ohmicide/TBK 1&3
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- KVRian
- 820 posts since 15 Dec, 2004
From the "end user" side: in the case of the torrent way, is required any specialized software to be installed in my computer?
Another thing:
Im not programmer, dont know if it's easy to implement, but a great feature would be, that, suppose i am registered in the new soundfont site, and today i download Juancho.sf2. Tomorrow i want to download Marita.sf2. But the system dont allow me to download Marita.sf2 if i dont write first a review of Juancho.sf2. That way, you know that for download you NEED to review first the soundfont you previously downloaded.
Well, an idea.
About the license: i believe in free things, but maybe one thing to be care about is that there are people that found good quality free things a good reason for make their OWN business. If anyone want to sell them, or get cash because compile them in CD i believe that some money must be required for the site maintenance(i remember when at papelmedia.com the campbell's soundfonts was selled without say nothing to the user that that soundfonts were from free sources)
Another thing:
Im not programmer, dont know if it's easy to implement, but a great feature would be, that, suppose i am registered in the new soundfont site, and today i download Juancho.sf2. Tomorrow i want to download Marita.sf2. But the system dont allow me to download Marita.sf2 if i dont write first a review of Juancho.sf2. That way, you know that for download you NEED to review first the soundfont you previously downloaded.
Well, an idea.
About the license: i believe in free things, but maybe one thing to be care about is that there are people that found good quality free things a good reason for make their OWN business. If anyone want to sell them, or get cash because compile them in CD i believe that some money must be required for the site maintenance(i remember when at papelmedia.com the campbell's soundfonts was selled without say nothing to the user that that soundfonts were from free sources)