Free Rhodes sample - feedback wanted

[Mr_Wasabi]

I've just embarked on a Rhodes sampling project. I have an 88 key Mark II Stage that I want to sample fairly extensively, and at the moment I'm still in the exploratory and testing stage, trying to see what strategy is going to give the best results.

I've done a quick, 5 velocity layered sample which is free to download for anyone interested. The sample is programmed with Kontakt2, but all the raw samples are there too, so you can do with it as you please. I've sampled a few notes around the Golden Zone near middle C, and somewhat fewer further out. So far I'm not really satisfied with the result - I think I need a lot more velocities and some release samples to make it speak like the real thing.

My intention is to develop this sample as far as I can, but still keep it free for all of the Rhodes freaks out there.

Any advice would be appreciated

[Canned Heat]

No advice, only say Welcome here & go on

[Markleford]

Sounds pretty good!

So far as the action, I felt that reducing the release envelope time was appropriate to make it a little tighter.

Keep going: we can always use another Rhodes! (At least I can, as it reminds me of half a lifetime ago when I played one in my high school jazz band...)

- m

[Jafo]

Yeah!

Those are exactly the sounds we've been wanting: that warm bellharp bark. Yes, you'll need more velocity layers, some release samples, and more sampled notes, but thus far, it's a fantastic beginning! I especially like how its sound is neither "pure" nor "nice" -- it's far more beautiful, far more satisfying, this way. ("Beautiful" is more complex than "pretty.")

Advice? Other than filling out your set, I noticed that a lot of your raw .WAVs need to have silence trimmed at the beginning or end. Also, higher velocity layers would be a Good Thing; to paraphrase learjeff, a real Rhodes gets its ass kicked on-stage, and it screams back.

Great test run, man.

[Mr_Wasabi]

Markleford, could you explain what you mean by "release envelope time". I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly.

[Mr_Wasabi]

Thanks Jafo.

I agree about the trimming. I got lazy and just set the loop start point inside Kontakt (it was getting late that night and I was getting impatient).

As for higher velocities - the highest velocity note in most cases was about as hard as I could hit the note without it choking (on some notes, it will just go thunk and not ring if you hit really, really hard). There's definitely room to sample more velocities close together in that region, I agree. And that's my plan.

Has anyone here sampled a Rhodes? What is the best way of getting consistent volume across all notes and velocities? I was thinking of maybe constructing a weighted device with a "finger" that I can drop onto the keys from different, scaled heights to ensure that the actual striking force is even across the keyboard for a certain velocity layer.

Anyone know how Scarbee did it?

[Markleford]

Markleford, could you explain what you mean by "release envelope time". I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly.

All the way at the bottom of the Kontakt 2 edit panels is the "Modulation" section (in light green color). The "Volume" panel shows an envelope generator with controls for Curve, Attack, Hold, Decay, Sustain, Release.

The Release knob value defaults to 300.0 ms. I reduced it to 135 ms or so to reduce the "fade out" of the note when released.

- m

[Mr_Wasabi]

Thanks Markleford, I'll experiment with that.

Do you know how to program the release samples? I've had a very quick look at the manual, but it didn't strike me as entirely intuitive...

[Markleford]

Do you know how to program the release samples? I've had a very quick look at the manual, but it didn't strike me as entirely intuitive...

You will need to create another Group for the release samples.

Then edit that Group and look at the "Source" module (green color, near top). There is a grey button that says "Release Trigger". Click it and it will turn yellow, indicating that the Group will only play on release.

- m

[Jafo]

I'd go with the weighted device system; nice and consistent, and really easy to build. Calibrating it might take some work, but that's part of the fun of building.

Gotta plug for the SFZ format. If you're good with search/replace, SFZ is your friend! Ahem. Anyway, just add a "trigger=release" line and you're golden.

[Mr_Wasabi]

Thanks again man. Why can't technical writers ever explain things so simply?

[Mr_Wasabi]

Jafo, I've downloaded LearJeff's scripts that he used to automate the construction of his soundfonts. I'll crack them open and have a look at some stage.

[Jafo]

Mr. Wasabi, I'd like to thank you in advance for this huge project. This is going to be so cool!

[Mr_Wasabi]

Jafo, I hope so too.

On another note, I've heard that the tone knob on a Rhodes like mine is actually a bass cut. That is, if it's at "10", then there is no EQ change, and as you turn it down, it cuts the bass at whatever frequency it's centred on. Is this true? The samples I recorded thus far were done with both the Bass and Volume knobs at 10.

Naturally everyone has a preference, and the EQ can of course be changed using a VST while the instrument is played, but I'm just wondering what the status quo is. Scarbee bypassed the tone control when he sampled his, which would imply that his samples would sound like Bass = 10. Maybe I'll wire in a bypass and see if it sounds much different.

Also, to normalise/compress/noise reduction/gain change or not? The current samples have not been altered in any way, so the low velocity notes are small amplitude and the high velocity ones relatively higher.

[Markleford]

Thanks again man. Why can't technical writers ever explain things so simply?

Generally because they're describing things as they appear in order in the GUI, not from an approach of "I'd like to do *this*: how do I do it?" Often times a FAQ approach is best!

And secretly, I think it's so the same tech writers can write their own "Kontakt 2 Made SUPER Easy!" tip-books later.

- m