KVR Audio

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:07 pm

Varadin wrote:Both of you are right. These are two different systems for Roman numeral analysis.

Ok then, what's the roman numeral for "this piece has just modulated into the relative harmonic minor and when you see iii- what we really mean is biii-". Because without that particular roman numeral (and a slew of others for any modulation or tonicization) I don't see how the "different system" works.

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:16 pm

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:20 pm

mistertoast wrote:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search

The backdoor progression.

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:32 pm

No way you can just assume chords are major or minor. Too much borrowing going on from different modes to be sure. No way you can just assume they are flatted or sharped either.

Ph-J · Post by **Ph-J** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:53 pm

nuffink wrote:
Toxikator wrote:romans do NOT always reference major! they do if you start on "I" since it implies a major tonality but when you start on "i" it implies a minor tonality.

This is the roman numeral set for the natural minor scale:

i iio III iv v VI VII i

NOT

i iio bIII iv v bVI bVII
Hey that's fascinating!

And wrong. But at least it explains some of the howlers you regularly make.

well, that's not wrong, that's how it's thought for classical musicians:

Major is: I ii iii IV V vi vii° I
Minor is: i ii° III iv (or IV) v or V VI VII (or vii°) i
(the 6th and 7th degree being movable)

I understand that it's different for jazz notation, but for the little experience I have with it, I've never encoutered small ii, iii, .. in a fake book

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:59 pm

nuffink wrote:Ok then, what's the roman numeral for "this piece has just modulated into the relative harmonic minor and when you see iii- what we really mean is biii-". Because without that particular roman numeral (and a slew of others for any modulation or tonicization) I don't see how the "different system" works.

You notate modulations like so:

c[i - iio - i - iv D[IV-V-I

To indicate the key change.

If you were discussing it in non-song-specific terms, it'd be more likely that you'd notate it i - iio - i - iv - IV/iio - V/IIo - I/iio

As per your specific example, you'd write something like I-IV-V-I-biii (there's nothing stopping you from doing this). The only difference between my method and yours is my method assumes either a major or minor set of notes based on the quality of the tonic chord. Yours assumes the major set of notes regardless of what the tonic note is.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:05 pm

Toxikator wrote:c[i - iio - i - iv D[IV-V-I

Introducing a key signature into it and thereby negating the purpose of the roman numeral system - key independance.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:19 pm

If you were analyzing a piece of sheet music that's how you'd do it. Here, I'd probably use the "V/ii, iii/ii" style, or else just say "modulate to the mediant" or whatever.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:24 pm

Toxikator wrote:If you were analyzing a piece of sheet music that's how you'd do it. Here, I'd probably use the "V/ii, iii/ii" style, or else just say "modulate to the mediant" or whatever.

If I were analysing a piece of sheet music I'd be using Pitch Class Set notation.

papatomany · Post by **papatomany** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:29 pm

Hunter wrote:So I'm sitting here watching the sunset blowing my mind with Biomechanoid's Absynth3 pads and I need some hair-rasing chord progressions. Anyone care to share any diamonds?

Just checking to see if that's what the original post said...

(Maybe you should start another thread, Hunter...)

cheul · Post by **cheul** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:02 am

nuffink wrote:Ok, to make up for that little bun fight, I'll expand upon…

nuffink wrote:2nds up/7ths down (I-ii),(IV-V) etc...
3rds down/6ths up (I-vi),(IV-ii) etc...
4ths up/5ths down (i-IV),(V-I) etc...

Mix and match to extend at will.
… and hopefully show why it's so useful.

...

Thanks I understood your previous statement. I wish you explained your previous major posts the same way. It's like a user's manual, very handy.

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:17 am

This helped me until I had a feel for it all...

http://members.aol.com/chordmaps/part1.htm

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:40 pm

So its black one, white one, white one, black one yeah?

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:49 pm

mistertoast wrote:This helped me until I had a feel for it all...

http://members.aol.com/chordmaps/part1.htm

Now that's a great resource. Glad I lurked here.

-Scott

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:56 pm

Yeah. I especially like...

http://chordmaps.com/genmap.htm

Once I went through and tried to figure out "why" each chord leading might work. I remember that a couple of them had me stuck, so I figured those were just tried-and-true "they just work" leadings.

I think the chords that lead into I/5 are interesting.

Most Awesome Sounding Chord Progressions Ever Vol 1