Supplementing minor & major triads

[rounser]

I've written a couple of things based on just the minor and major triads of the minor scale recently, with heavy use of inversions. This gives a very cohesive sound (same number of notes per chord, no dissonance), but is a bit limited.

My question is, what chords are a good "next step" from these? I'm thinking V7 definitely, maybe diminished and sus4, but when I've tried this in the past things begin to lose that "cohesiveness" I get from just using major and minor triads (and their inversions). Maybe reduce the volume of the V7 to compensate for it having 4 notes rather than 3?

Any thoughts?

[JumpingJackFlash]

I've written a couple of things based on just the minor and major triads of the minor scale recently, with heavy use of inversions. This gives a very cohesive sound (same number of notes per chord, no dissonance), but is a bit limited.

My question is, what chords are a good "next step" from these? I'm thinking V7 definitely, maybe diminished and sus4, but when I've tried this in the past things begin to lose that "cohesiveness" I get from just using major and minor triads (and their inversions). Maybe reduce the volume of the V7 to compensate for it having 4 notes rather than 3?

Any thoughts?

The thing is, the more you move away from the triads of the scale, the more you have to consider things like preparation and/or resolution. - Some people will argue these are outdated classical concepts, but your music will sound more 'cohesive' if you treat dissonances properly.

Also, as you are seeing, non-triadic chords have more notes in them. This can cause a problem. One of the best things do do, is to decide how many 'parts' or 'voices' you are writing for. - 4-part harmony is usually best, with 4 notes to every chord. With triads, this means you have to double one note of the chord. - Usually the root is doubled, or if not, the 5th is doubled. With a seventh chord, you don't double any note, and so all chords have four notes in.
You could instead write 3-part harmony, with 3 notes to each chord. Triads are fine, but with seventh chords you will have to omit a note. - Typically, the 5th is usually omitted (or with inversions, sometimes the root).

So, seventh chords are good yes (The seventh should ideally fall a step, and the following chord should be a 4th above or a 5th below the root of the 7th chord). After that, you can experiment with chromatic harmony.

I also think you would be well-served by thinking about non-harmony notes such as passing notes and suspensions. These can really enliven a piece and make it flow more.

Also, a point of note, in a minor key, be careful with root-position chords ii, III and vii. - These chords generally sound bad unless treated in a very specific way.

[rounser]

Thanks heaps Jack, that's exactly the sort of advice I was after. I've heard of 3 and 4 part harmony before, but your explanation is the first time I've understood what it's about.

I also think you would be well-served by thinking about non-harmony notes such as passing notes and suspensions. These can really enliven a piece and make it flow more.

To clarify, by passing note you mean a chord followed by a non-diatonic single note (the passing note), followed by a chord? And are you implying that a suspension usually involves a non-diatonic note?

The seventh should ideally fall a step

Does this mean that in the case of V7, you'd go from vi (or VI, can't remember which it is) to V7?

Also, a point of note, in a minor key, be careful with root-position chords ii, III and vii. - These chords generally sound bad unless treated in a very specific way.

Interesting, didn't know that. I'll start just using first and second inversions of these.

[Km7]

I think the things are a little heavily put. He probably means to be careful with the ii chord, because in natural minor in root position it is a diminished chord which makes it dissonant and unstable. Classically, it is usually used in first inversion, although usage in root position could also be observed.
The VII chord in minor has a subdominant function and could also function as a secondary dominant of the third degree. About the III chord... Its overall tonic function is weaker and acoustically, the minor third degree is a little less stable than the major. Logically, after III in root position would follow a subdominant chrod. Using a mediant triad in first inversion actually implies some dominant quality to the chord, which of course in natural minor is less prominent.
I would like to read what JumpingJackFlash has exactly in mind because at the moment I don't associate anything else with his words except most of what I said.
EDIT: Ah, yes, I see - vii should mean the chord in harmonic minor, which is diminished in that case.

[JumpingJackFlash]

To clarify, by passing note you mean a chord followed by a non-diatonic single note (the passing note), followed by a chord?

There is a difference between consonance/dissonance and diatonic/chromatic:

Non-diatonic is another way of saying 'chromatic', and involves notes foreign to the key.
Dissonance is a clash of notes resulting from two disharmonious elements, it does not have to be chromatic.

In other words, a chromatic note is one that isn't part of the key (eg. F# in C major).
A dissonant note is a note which doesn't belong to the harmony at a given point. For example, E against F in C major; both notes are part of the key, but are still dissonant to one another.

As another example; consider the notes F#, A# and C#. - All three notes are chromatic notes in C major, but together, they are all consonant (they form a F# major triad). (Note 'consonance' is the opposite of 'dissonance').

There are 2 types of passing notes. Normal (diatonic) passing notes are dissonant, but not chromatic.
Then, there are chromatic passing notes, which are usually both chromatic and dissonant.

The first type, diatonic passing notes, are probably the most common, and sound best.

And are you implying that a suspension usually involves a non-diatonic note?

Generally no. A suspension involves a dissonant note, but not usually a non-diatonic (chromatic) note.

The seventh should ideally fall a step

Does this mean that in the case of V7, you'd go from vi (or VI, can't remember which it is) to V7?

No. The seventh of V7 (in C major, it would be F for example), should fall a step (to E for example) in the next chord. - Usually this is I, so the seventh of V7 falls to the 3rd of I. (Or, with V7-VI, the seventh of V7 should fall to the 5th of VI.)

The following example shows what I mean:

The passing notes are in red, the suspension is in blue.
In the V7 to I, the 7th falls a step to the 3rd of I.

Also, a point of note, in a minor key, be careful with root-position chords ii, III and vii. - These chords generally sound bad unless treated in a very specific way.

Interesting, didn't know that. I'll start just using first and second inversions of these.

I don't mean never use them at all, I'm just saying be careful with them. Generally, you can get a more pleasing sound by using alternatives (but sometimes you might like the more gritty sound of them, so in that case fine.)

Also, be careful with second inversions. These are rather unstable, and should be used infrequently, and with care. (I could go into more details, but I don't want to bombard you with a list of things not to do!)

[JumpingJackFlash]

I think the things are a little heavily put. He probably means to be careful with the ii chord, because in natural minor in root position it is a diminished chord which makes it dissonant and unstable. Classically, it is usually used in first inversion, although usage in root position could also be observed.
The VII chord in minor has a subdominant function and could also function as a secondary dominant of the third degree. About the III chord... Its overall tonic function is weaker and acoustically, the minor third degree is a little less stable than the major. Logically, after III in root position would follow a subdominant chrod. Using a mediant triad in first inversion actually implies some dominant quality to the chord, which of course in natural minor is less prominent.
I would like to read what JumpingJackFlash has exactly in mind because at the moment I don't associate anything else with his words except most of what I said.
EDIT: Ah, yes, I see - vii should mean the chord in harmonic minor, which is diminished in that case.

Yes, in the harmonic minor, ii and vii are diminished and III is augmented.
iib and viib are fine though. (viib should generally be followed by i or ib in a minor key)

With III (in root position) in a minor key, the 5th should be prepared, then rise by step to the tonic in i or VI. The chord should be preceded by V, V7 or viib.

With ii (in root position) in a minor key, the 5th should be prepared, then fall by step to the root of V or V7. The chord should be preceded by iv (in root position). (Although, ii7a is preferable to iia)

With vii (in root position) in a minor key, the 5th should be prepared, then fall by step to the 3rd of I. The chord should be preceded by ivb.

[Km7]

Yes, I see what you have had in mind.