I've got this terrible affliction and it's doing my head in.
I'm having lots of trouble building actual songs. I usualy get stuck with a 2/4/8/16 bar loop of drums and bass. The beat is pretty much perfect, the bassline's fat and punchy and I can't build a proper tune to save my life.
I keep adding synths, samplers, rexes, build some melodies only to delete them after they've looped for a millon times, tweaking filters, eq, compressors and I decide they suck.
Then I take a new synth, sampler, whatever, make a melody, loop it for a million times tweaking filters, eq... Notice a pattern?
I'm not in a creative rut, I've got tons of ideas, I just can't get them to sound as they do in my head.
I've got loopitis. Heal me.
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
This may come across as rather crass, but it's the best advice I could offer anyone in a creative rut. Learn a new instrument. Heck, buy a cheap plastic recorder(the flute type, not the tape type!) and learn to play something on it. If you can, learn some music theory, buy a cheap plastic keyboard, and learn to play piano.
Learning a real instrument opens up not only new sonic possibilities, but also new creative possibilities. When you start to learn how chord notes react with each other better and have something new to "feel" the music with, it's a whole new world. Once you learn this stuff you'll wonder how you ever did without those possibilities.
If you already do know some instruments, there are a couple of things you can do.
Learn some new hotkeys or features of your host. Test a new MIDI feature, learn a feature you never thought you would need and USE it in a song. Do something outside of what you normally would do.
If you don't put words to your songs, try to do that. Songs find entirely new directions when you put words to them. I've even used a technique in the past where I would take an already well known commercial song that already has words, and write NEW words to that song. This way you don't have to worry about all the theory and technical issues involved, just the words. Then take those words and rearrange their phrasings and pitch to match a song you've been stumped by. Just sing them over top of it until something sounds good. The words don't even have to rhyme, they just need to GO somewhere. Tell a story, true or false.
One time when a friend of mine and I were writing we got bored and kind of stuck. So we started goofing around and writing a song about myself and my new girlfriend at the time where we forgot to use protection while having sex and had a kid and our lives changed. The second verse, she left me with the kid! It sounds silly, but that song makes me proud to this day(I need to find the CD and share it). It's absolutely one of the most creative things I've ever done. It's a catchy tune and the words are actually very clever. But it worked. We had FINISHED something. And that's the goal. Do what you can to finish something.
It's all about expanding yourself. When you are stuck, you need to break out. Good luck.
Brent
Learning a real instrument opens up not only new sonic possibilities, but also new creative possibilities. When you start to learn how chord notes react with each other better and have something new to "feel" the music with, it's a whole new world. Once you learn this stuff you'll wonder how you ever did without those possibilities.
If you already do know some instruments, there are a couple of things you can do.
Learn some new hotkeys or features of your host. Test a new MIDI feature, learn a feature you never thought you would need and USE it in a song. Do something outside of what you normally would do.
If you don't put words to your songs, try to do that. Songs find entirely new directions when you put words to them. I've even used a technique in the past where I would take an already well known commercial song that already has words, and write NEW words to that song. This way you don't have to worry about all the theory and technical issues involved, just the words. Then take those words and rearrange their phrasings and pitch to match a song you've been stumped by. Just sing them over top of it until something sounds good. The words don't even have to rhyme, they just need to GO somewhere. Tell a story, true or false.
One time when a friend of mine and I were writing we got bored and kind of stuck. So we started goofing around and writing a song about myself and my new girlfriend at the time where we forgot to use protection while having sex and had a kid and our lives changed. The second verse, she left me with the kid! It sounds silly, but that song makes me proud to this day(I need to find the CD and share it). It's absolutely one of the most creative things I've ever done. It's a catchy tune and the words are actually very clever. But it worked. We had FINISHED something. And that's the goal. Do what you can to finish something.
It's all about expanding yourself. When you are stuck, you need to break out. Good luck.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRian
- 964 posts since 14 Jun, 2003 from USA
Technically what I can suggest if your making more loop stuff and just ideas is to put them off to the side, way off to the side, like some 20 minutes out of the picture. Think of a palette that you just pull ideas out from. Then when building up your song from the start, pull those loops or ideas back in to your likings. It's as simple as copy & paste.
That's what I do with FL Studio because it's so easy to get caught up with making just loops. Sometimes I make all my ideas on like Pattern50+ to give myself room for the rest, then to create an actual song, I simply bring them back in to the beginning.
So my idea is about giving yourself some space to work with. One area of space for ideas and the other for the actual song building. Hope that helps.
That's what I do with FL Studio because it's so easy to get caught up with making just loops. Sometimes I make all my ideas on like Pattern50+ to give myself room for the rest, then to create an actual song, I simply bring them back in to the beginning.
So my idea is about giving yourself some space to work with. One area of space for ideas and the other for the actual song building. Hope that helps.
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 21 Sep, 2003 from wigan
Keep the melodies in and start working on a new song. You shouldn't be too picky about these things. Just make a new song when you cannot be bothered to work on your current song soon enough you start building up your techniques and style that you will start making music you like.
Also maybe start experimenting and do things that you wouldn't normally do. Try thinking out of the box.
Another thing is that looping isn't necessary a bad thing. A simple a good way to break up the monotonous is to add variation to some of it properties/parameters.
Lastly maybe listen to different music to give you ideas. I like listening to drum n bass which can be repetitive in struture but they do alot of subtle things and sometimes not so subtle to keep it interesting.
gfk
Also maybe start experimenting and do things that you wouldn't normally do. Try thinking out of the box.
Another thing is that looping isn't necessary a bad thing. A simple a good way to break up the monotonous is to add variation to some of it properties/parameters.
Lastly maybe listen to different music to give you ideas. I like listening to drum n bass which can be repetitive in struture but they do alot of subtle things and sometimes not so subtle to keep it interesting.
gfk
Last edited by gfk on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 5379 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia
Hey there,
Maybe render your single instrument loops and then mix to track? You can make variations later? I have a gazillion loops myself.
Hope your music turns out the way you intend, nix
Maybe render your single instrument loops and then mix to track? You can make variations later? I have a gazillion loops myself.
Hope your music turns out the way you intend, nix
I wonder what I want in here
-my site is gone and music a mess
-my site is gone and music a mess
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- KVRAF
- 13446 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Get used to adding content horizontally rather than vertically. In other words, do everything you can to proceed on your timeline.
- Sascha
- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRAF
- 20928 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
It'd be cool to constantly render down parts and then recycle them into other songs later. Let's say you spend a year working like this, at the very least you'd have your own custom sample library from which to build new songs out of.nix808 wrote:Maybe render your single instrument loops and then mix to track?
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 665 posts since 12 Sep, 2006 from bat country
It's drum and bass I'm trying to do and since it's got such a very strict pattern that all tracks are made upon, it's very hard to live up to what it's supposed to be. It's odd really. Dnb started as this very experimental and original genre and now it's formulaic and you have to make your track a certain way, in order to meet expectations. I think that limits my creativity a great deal.
And it's not like I should jump off the bandwagon, because 1. it's really hard to do something original in dnb anymore since it's all been done before and 2. the bandwagon is where I want and need to be if I want to be anything in dnb.
And it's not like I should jump off the bandwagon, because 1. it's really hard to do something original in dnb anymore since it's all been done before and 2. the bandwagon is where I want and need to be if I want to be anything in dnb.
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- Hun #3
- 4265 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany
Well, with DnB or indeed any electronic dance music, 4/8/16 bar loops is all you really want IMO..
Just find 16 Bars you're reallly happy with, mix them down to audio as separately as you can be bothered and try and arrange your tune by just taking bits away. You should have five minutes of a fairly decent rough cut in no time!
Marco
Just find 16 Bars you're reallly happy with, mix them down to audio as separately as you can be bothered and try and arrange your tune by just taking bits away. You should have five minutes of a fairly decent rough cut in no time!
Marco
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- KVRer
- 20 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from Paris
I'm not sure on what sequencer / host you use, but one thing that really helped with this was starting and mainly working in the arrangement view in live instead of the session view.
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- KVRAF
- 2545 posts since 22 Jun, 2004 from Paris. Well, not far.
It'odd, you sound disenchanted or even bitter about this genre. Why should you make it painful for yourself and carry on with a genre that you feel is frustrating for you? Do you have any specific reason for trying so hard to do what you feel is expected of you? Just curious.iDumi wrote:It's drum and bass I'm trying to do and since it's got such a very strict pattern that all tracks are made upon, it's very hard to live up to what it's supposed to be. It's odd really. Dnb started as this very experimental and original genre and now it's formulaic and you have to make your track a certain way, in order to meet expectations. I think that limits my creativity a great deal.
And it's not like I should jump off the bandwagon, because 1. it's really hard to do something original in dnb anymore since it's all been done before and 2. the bandwagon is where I want and need to be if I want to be anything in dnb.
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- KVRist
- 65 posts since 9 Apr, 2008
I had this problem and was frustrated as hell - I listen to stuff like Theo Parrish and Omar S - very repetitive but you suddenly find yourself 5mins into a track and not knowing how, something kept it going.
To help me finish a track I've used acapellas of Kennedy speeches which are quite good for 'ups and downs', so i was vibing off the spoken word and playing with filters and track kills in this way. I listened back and the way that I've 'chopped' loops is much different to if i'd simply 'built' the track in the arrangement view.
To help me finish a track I've used acapellas of Kennedy speeches which are quite good for 'ups and downs', so i was vibing off the spoken word and playing with filters and track kills in this way. I listened back and the way that I've 'chopped' loops is much different to if i'd simply 'built' the track in the arrangement view.
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- KVRAF
- 2121 posts since 24 May, 2008 from London, UK
There does seem to be one very obvious thing getting in your way... you appear to be trying to make music you don't really like. That's pretty much never going to work for you.
If you find modern DnB so dispiriting, step away. Create your own off-shoot. You might come up with the next Bassline! Oh no, hang on, don't do that...
Cheers!
If you find modern DnB so dispiriting, step away. Create your own off-shoot. You might come up with the next Bassline! Oh no, hang on, don't do that...
Cheers!
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- KVRAF
- 2327 posts since 13 Apr, 2004 from Vancouver, Canada
I do believe the OP went as far as to say that he was not in a creative rut.koolkeys wrote:This may come across as rather crass, but it's the best advice I could offer anyone in a creative rut.