Albino vs Gladiator vs Surge vs Zebra

[Locus M]

Am I allowed a Runciter or two?

Be my Guest!

[zerocrossing]

3, 6, 8, 12, 13, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, and 30 are my guesses for the analog oscs. No?

Are you serious?

Yeah. But like I said, I really have no idea. I was doing a knee jerk reaction to each one trying not to out analyze it. I take it I don't get a price for being right on each account? Frankly, I could care less, I don't break things down into analog/digital, but more in terms of like/dislike. My mind sometimes does a mental shorthand and calls some types of sounds "vintage" or "analog" but they're just little stories I tell myself for convenience.

I may be wrong, (I never think so though) but this type of shoot-out misses the point.

Another things that goes to show is that people always propell the idea of "imperfections" in analog. That's ridiculous. Some old analog synths may be broken and need repair or constant tuning. But a good, intact analogue oscillator does the same, constant, steady, (boring?) tone that any (aliasing free) digital oscillator does unless you apply modulations.

I think I'm agreeing with you, though maybe I didn't say it correctly. By "break" I don't really mean defective or not operating correctly, I mean break as in when you drive a tube past it's normal operating range. Often done on purpose for effect now, but not always intended in the original design. Were old analog filters designed to go into self oscillation? I don't think this was an intended effect, but a weakness that was exploited to good effect. That's what I mean by "break."

[zerocrossing]

3, 6, 8, 12, 13, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, and 30 are my guesses for the analog oscs. No?

Are you serious?

Yeah. But like I said, I really have no idea. I was doing a knee jerk reaction to each one trying not to out analyze it. I take it I don't get a price for being right on each account? Frankly, I could care less, I don't break things down into analog/digital, but more in terms of like/dislike. My mind sometimes does a mental shorthand and calls some types of sounds "vintage" or "analog" but they're just little stories I tell myself for convenience.

HEY! I take that all back! I'm the only one who's guessed so I want some sort of prize! I live in California god damn it, where everyone at least gets a participation prize for everything!

[Urs]

Hah, I finally feel inspired to make some more Zebra demos:

http://www.u-he.com/music/GrittyIntro.mp3

The only cheat is an analogue compressor on master.

[SWAN808]

About the "instability of analogue oscillators": You must be kidding me. Time for a shoot-out

For each of the following examples you have 3 possibilities - Analogue, Digital, Zebra. Can you find them? Which example is analogue and which one isn't? (As in: Where are the f**king instabilities? Other than tuning, that is...)

Sawtooths:

Oscillator 1
Oscillator 2
Oscillator 3
Oscillator 4
Oscillator 5
Oscillator 6
Oscillator 7
Oscillator 8
Oscillator 9
Oscillator 10
Oscillator 11
Oscillator 12
Oscillator 13

Pulses:

Oscillator 20
Oscillator 21
Oscillator 22
Oscillator 23
Oscillator 24
Oscillator 25
Oscillator 26
Oscillator 27
Oscillator 28
Oscillator 29
Oscillator 30

To make it a fair competition, each oscillator is run through a lowpass filter (cutoff fully up) and an outboard patch bay, then back into teh computer. But beware! Some digital oscillators are also run through an analogue filter (which honestly makes close to no difference, believe me...)!

Let's see. Anyone takes this on?

I'll post the equopment used later. I will not name competing plugins.

Enjoy,

Urs

surely you need to hear an Osc tuned against another to hear its instabilities? With no reference its extremely difficult/impossible...?

[Urs]

surely you need to hear an Osc tuned against another to hear its instabilities? With no reference its extremely difficult/impossible...?

It's about the static tone within one oscillator over a period of time. People seem to think that analogue oscillators sound mysterically "moving". Also, people seem to think that analogue oscillators have mysterical warm overtones and/or sound brighter than digital ones. The opposite is the case. Part of the excercise is to show that analogue oscillators sound relatively dull and static, and this contributes to the analogue precision & feel.

[zerocrossing]

Hah, I finally feel inspired to make some more Zebra demos:

http://www.u-he.com/music/GrittyIntro.mp3

The only cheat is an analogue compressor on master.

Urs... you're only crime is that it sounds too... good(?). Again, I want to go on record as saying that I love Zebra 2 and the Zebra sound... but it misses in some aspect.

Listen to the initial bass sound on this track:

http://www.dsisynth.com/audio/mopho_dem ... o-rock.mp3

That... fur.. wool...or something. Some odd mess in the high frequency range... bit of a frequency drop off at some point... my people call it "warmth" Just kidding. I don't know what to call what I'm hearing (or possibly imagining, I have not ruled that out) but I don't look to Zebra for that. I wouldn't be so defensive about it though, you ranked #1 in CM's poll, right? That Zebra clip you posted does sound great... but it's missing something... is just a bit different. Again, it's more often than not my go to VSTi.

[Urs]

I must add, the detunedness of the exmaples serves two purposes. For one thing I find it extremely hard to tune some of this oscillators correctly. That is because of the pots, not because of the instability. They go out of tune just by looking at the tune knobs. The other purpose is, maybe one shouldn't compare tehse examples. Maybe one should listen to each example by itself and decide whether it's analogue or not.

[Urs]

1 6 8 Clearly analogue (eek!). I think I can hear the Zebra digital filter saturation in examples 3 and 7. 5 is the Little Phatty. and 2 and 4 are the modulars.

How did I do? Im taking a bit of a punt...as I dont even know how many of each synth are used...

Well, hmmm. I think I'll unveil this one:

1. LiveWire
2. Z2 XMF
3. Moog
4. Cwejman
5. Z2 Vintage2
6. Analog Systems
7. Z2 XMF
8. Z2 XMF

It's pretty clear once you know it.

I had to use some tricks though, as we needed mono output I could detune a single XMF (cutoff offset) and mix to mono afterwards. I also modulated an envelope against itself in a ModMixer to make it snappier than exponential. Oh, last but not least it's always a nifty trick to use the filter envelope in negative polarity on the vca. This way one can compensate for the "bass boost" that some synths exhibit at low filter cutoff.

Here's the link for those who hadn't heard it:

http://www.u-he.com/music/SomeBass.wav

Urs

[jupiop]

Well, I have read most of this thread, I am a aspiring producer and I think like this........ Do you people realize how huge the first computer was? f**king gigantic. Now look at a laptop. Think about the old apples that ran games off of huge floppy disc. Technology moves forward so I can easily believe that laptops can emulate a jupiter 8 that was made 20+ years ago. I'll admit there's nothing like having that pretty hardware in front of you. I even plan on buying a hardware minimoog voyager and jupiter 8 once my career jumps off. That's all I plan to use through the most of it to keep my sound authentic if you will. so for now I use arturia jup 8 demo and arturia's minimoog va. I mean come on who wouldn't want this?......

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/i ... keys.l.jpg

I wish I could afford to buy a hardware jup 8. I love software engineers for what they do.

[Urs]

http://www.dsisynth.com/audio/mopho_dem ... o-rock.mp3

That... fur.. wool...or something.

I know what you mean, I'm working on that.

I don't think it's difficult though. I have worked on that song for only 30 minutes, including the bass and "guitar" sound from scratch. I'll keep an ear on it.

[david.beholder]

Proof? There is no proof, just your claims. You have not posted your sylenth version of the same preset as Howard copied. Please post a sylenth version. I would be interested to hear how it sounds analogue.

Kk on weekend.
Is it actually gonna change anything? Just don't want to spend my time on fail-fail situation.

[zerocrossing]

http://www.dsisynth.com/audio/mopho_dem ... o-rock.mp3

That... fur.. wool...or something.

I know what you mean, I'm working on that.

I don't think it's difficult though. I have worked on that song for only 30 minutes, including the bass and "guitar" sound from scratch. I'll keep an ear on it.

This is fun! Dance for me synth man!

Somewhat off topic (but not really)is that I don't understand how anyone can dislike a tone or sound. Isn't there a place in one's vst folder for DarkWare's Nightmare Machine, Zebra and Sylenth1, right? Like an idiot I even paid for the DarkWare stuff. Like my friend Todd used to say, "The love between the ugly is the most beautiful love of all."

[SWAN808]

1 6 8 Clearly analogue (eek!). I think I can hear the Zebra digital filter saturation in examples 3 and 7. 5 is the Little Phatty. and 2 and 4 are the modulars.

How did I do? Im taking a bit of a punt...as I dont even know how many of each synth are used...

Well, hmmm. I think I'll unveil this one:

1. LiveWire
2. Z2 XMF
3. Moog
4. Cwejman
5. Z2 Vintage2
6. Analog Systems
7. Z2 XMF
8. Z2 XMF

It's pretty clear once you know it.

I had to use some tricks though, as we needed mono output I could detune a single XMF (cutoff offset) and mix to mono afterwards. I also modulated an envelope against itself in a ModMixer to make it snappier than exponential. Oh, last but not least it's always a nifty trick to use the filter envelope in negative polarity on the vca. This way one can compensate for the "bass boost" that some synths exhibit at low filter cutoff.

Here's the link for those who hadn't heard it:

http://www.u-he.com/music/SomeBass.wav

Urs

Ok so I was correct with the theory on 1 and 6 which sounded most analogue of them all to me - I slipped and added 8 on my final listening round...

The Moog overdrive I mistook for Zebra filter drive - not bad for Zebra! And Vice versa I thought 5 was the moog when it was the Vintage2. I Thought you would be adding a decent amount of filter saturation in order to dirty the sounds up...And 7 I was correct with, and 5 also in the first guess...

Interesting that envelop mod - getting snappier attack in order to compete with the analogues - I will look into that one I have heard people using a similar tactic with the Xpander and its sluggish envelopes...

I guess with careful programming you can get some great results. Interesting test thanks Urs I enjoyed it.

[Echoes in the Attic]

1 6 8 Clearly analogue (eek!). I think I can hear the Zebra digital filter saturation in examples 3 and 7. 5 is the Little Phatty. and 2 and 4 are the modulars.

How did I do? Im taking a bit of a punt...as I dont even know how many of each synth are used...

Well, hmmm. I think I'll unveil this one:

1. LiveWire
2. Z2 XMF
3. Moog
4. Cwejman
5. Z2 Vintage2
6. Analog Systems
7. Z2 XMF
8. Z2 XMF

It's pretty clear once you know it.

I had to use some tricks though, as we needed mono output I could detune a single XMF (cutoff offset) and mix to mono afterwards. I also modulated an envelope against itself in a ModMixer to make it snappier than exponential. Oh, last but not least it's always a nifty trick to use the filter envelope in negative polarity on the vca. This way one can compensate for the "bass boost" that some synths exhibit at low filter cutoff.

Very interesting! I guessed only 50% of it right (Which is equivalent to the odds of a random selection really). 5 is a pleasant surprise, anything esle I could have gone either way about. 6 is the sound I'd ideally like to be able to hear out of Zebra. That's the type that I don't think it really gets too close too. But I think asking that of any synth (to be able to replicate any sound) is a lot to ask.

Id' love to check out those patches Urs, especially 2 and mostly 5. I'd love to see the 'tricks' myself in Zebra.

I have to say also that this is an area of presets that could be very useful to people learning to use zebra like a VA. While the factory patches and the add-ons have lots of nice sounds (And half the fun is making your own anyways), there is lots of room for more of these simple analog types sounds.