KVR Audio

Beazlebug · Post by **Beazlebug** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:35 pm

I don't understand serialism or atonal music . I like a lot of what most people would consider 'weird' music i.e black metal, breakcore, glitch. But when trying to broaden my horizons so to speak, I started checking out Cage, Stockhausen, Boulez etc, I can't get this stuff at all. Stockhausen for instance is just random, totally odd noises, silence and then some more discordant random noises. Am I too dumb to get this stuff or what. How do you understand this stuff?

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:38 pm

Boulez. What a spoiled, egocentric little prick. I refuse to listen to his music on principle.

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:41 pm

BTW you should listen to Gyorgi Ligeti. He's the one composer of modern classical that I find very fascinating and not that difficult to listen to.

ZombyWoof · Post by **ZombyWoof** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:42 pm

It sounds better when you wear a black turtleneck.

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:45 pm

ZombyWoof wrote:It sounds better when you wear a black turtleneck.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:46 pm

Stockhausen is probably not the best place to start (or Boulez for that matter). They are both quite cerebral even compared to a lot of 20th C music. On the other hand if you want a very accessible piece by Cage I'd highly recommend his "String Quartet in Four Parts" which is very beautiful.

Really though, the best way to get into 20th C classical is to start at the beginning and see how it evolved. Start with composers like Debussey and Ravel, then move onto Stravinsky and Bartók and through them to composers like Schoenberg and Webern, and then maybe Messiaen and later composers like Ligeti, Penderecki, Takemitsu, Riley, Reich and Glass. That will prepare you better for the more esoteric stuff. Have fun.

Beazlebug · Post by **Beazlebug** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:46 pm

TristezaOrange wrote:Boulez. What a spoiled, egocentric little prick. I refuse to listen to his music on principle.

...I listened to 'dialogue de l'ombre double'. The sleeve note states "an unparelled understanding of sound all hold the listerner in thrall' It held me reaching for the off button.

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:52 pm

Beazlebug wrote:
TristezaOrange wrote:Boulez. What a spoiled, egocentric little prick. I refuse to listen to his music on principle.
...I listened to 'dialogue de l'ombre double'. The sleeve note states "an unparelled understanding of sound all hold the listerner in thrall' It held me reaching for the off button.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:53 pm

Well one of the very first pieces of electronic music I listened to was Kontakte by Stockhausen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakte_(Stockhausen)

That was back in my teens. I really loved it actually and even used it as background music for a piece of film I made while I studied Film studies at college. He's not easy listening though but I got the whole idea of dialogue between musical forms and still use it a lot in my own compositions.

Beazlebug · Post by **Beazlebug** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:54 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Stockhausen is probably not the best place to start (or Boulez for that matter). They are both quite cerebral even compared to a lot of 20th C music. On the other hand if you want a very accessible piece by Cage I'd highly recommend his "String Quartet in Four Parts" which is very beautiful.

Really though, the best way to get into 20th C classical is to start at the beginning and see how it evolved. Start with composers like Debussey and Ravel, then move onto Stravinsky and Bartók and through them to composers like Schoenberg and Webern, and then maybe Messiaen and later composers like Ligeti, Penderecki, Takemitsu, Riley, Reich and Glass. That will prepare you better for the more esoteric stuff. Have fun.

Cheers, I like Stravinsky. I also like Glass' early music (music in 12 parts e.g)To me it seems that the whole 20th century movement was a reacton to what other composers had done before, but like they were trying to out do them?
I think my question is, did they consider that at some point, they were getting too theoritical for the sake of it and would end up alienating thier audience?

Download SOphist · Post by **Download SOphist** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:57 pm

I second what aMused said (well, i'd omit Glass :p), but i would definitely encourage you to listen to Messiaen's Méditations sur le mystère de la Sainte Trinité or Quatuor pour la fin du temps. Truly engaging music.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:58 pm

Beazlebug wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Stockhausen is probably not the best place to start (or Boulez for that matter). They are both quite cerebral even compared to a lot of 20th C music. On the other hand if you want a very accessible piece by Cage I'd highly recommend his "String Quartet in Four Parts" which is very beautiful.

Really though, the best way to get into 20th C classical is to start at the beginning and see how it evolved. Start with composers like Debussey and Ravel, then move onto Stravinsky and Bartók and through them to composers like Schoenberg and Webern, and then maybe Messiaen and later composers like Ligeti, Penderecki, Takemitsu, Riley, Reich and Glass. That will prepare you better for the more esoteric stuff. Have fun.
Cheers, I like Stravinsky. I also like Glass' early music (music in 12 parts e.g)To me it seems that the whole 20th century movement was a reacton to what other composers had done before, but like they were trying to out do them?

I think you'll find that with all music - that's how it evolves. A combination of ego and noticing that new territories have been opened up by those who came before and wanting to explore them. Stravinsky and Bartók for example opened up a whole new territory based around rhythmic structures in music that paved the way for a lot of experimentation with more complex use of rhythm in later classical music (going way beyond what was available in Western culture as well - as with Messiaen for example)

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:00 pm

I recommend the book The Rest Is Noise: Listening to the 20th Century by Alex Ross. It's a great read and you'll learn a lot about modern composers and their best works.

Best book I've read in a while.

http://www.therestisnoise.com/

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:01 pm

Download SOphist wrote:I second what aMused said (well, i'd omit Glass :p), but i would definitely encourage you to listen to Messiaen's Méditations sur le mystère de la Sainte Trinité or Quatuor pour la fin du temps. Truly engaging music.

Glass is OK but I'm not a huge fan - I just put him in because he's pretty accessible, mostly. I do like "Akhnaton" though.

"Quatuor pour la fin du temps" is truly divine music in every sense. I'd add "Harawi" by Messiaen - one of the finest vocal pieces I've heard (and great fun)

ZombyWoof · Post by **ZombyWoof** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:05 pm

I've always enjoyed Steve Reich and his studies into structure.
'Music for 18 Musicians' and 'The Desert Music' get a lot of play here.

20th century 'classical'music