Thanks for looking out DarkStar. We can keep the thread open. But let's please try to keep it from actual bashing on IK, a company SR does business with. I don't think what was said so far was too bad. (Just know that if someone goes to far and just rips on IK then it will be moderated). The conversation can continue. I am interested in hearing your opinions about the app, what you think of it etc - and it doesn't HAVE to be that you love it! Although people who like groovebox type products I imagine will really love it.
Okay, so yes the kid wandering around the Mall now can "make beats" and that is annoying to us musicians!!!! Haha. But, we can't change the fact that people like song construction kit loops and groove box interactive intelligent randomizers and things that make it easy to create "instant music". Karma and all of those kinds of technology are popular.
So, how can this affect you? Well, first of course you have to be into loops. If not then... oh well! This one not for you (go buy more T-Racks Singles and maybe NOW you will vote for my suggested models for future singles!!!! Otherwise the focus will turn to kids in Supermarkets who vote more on forums!!!! Just kidding).
IF you like to have fun mixing and matching song construction type loops in a UNIQUE way then GrooveMaker for the iPhone may just surprise you. Someone asked earlier how does this do anything different than "Beatmaker" (also for the iphone)? Well, I have "Beatmaker" and I can tell you that it is quite different. Oh and even though I am as much a musician as any of you guys I am still an iPhone app junky because I love gadgets like that and I dig the multi-touch surface control thing... plus it is the future! I think they're even going to do a baby Continuum Fingerboard app for it... and hey as long as the apps aren't ridiculously expensive have some fun!!!!
Now, regarding the hype... apart from teasing you guys (which I love to do) I wasn't involved in how it was presented to you. I am not surprised by your reactions if you were expecting it to be a DAW or something... in fact I tried to throw you off that expectation as best I could. But, I knew that an inexpensive iPhone app was going to make people go "huh?". At least at first.
As pointed out earlier by Pricer (which cracks me up... he disappears forever and then comes BACK with clever detective work! That's Pricer!!!!! Welcome back dude). In fact, he was right in that IK has a unique patent on groove mixing and randomization technology that is used in GrooveMaker to be able to change different types of mixes on the fly of combinations of loops that work over each other in unique ways that you don't find in "Beatmaker" or any other app.
Anyway, if you like song construction kit looop "groove box" type products and have $10 or whatever it costs then have some fun! You can use the various songs that IK has in the different styles or you can eventually pick up "remixable" versions of some SR Song Construction kits (with added loops for more mathemtical mix and match possibilities per song) AND maybe there will be a way to put your own loops in there too which makes that app a nice portable tool for live remixing.
I've always liked IK's original Groove Maker app. You know I had a conversation with someone at Real World studios about Peter Gabriel buying Groove Maker because he like messing around with loops like that? Of course once I started talking to the guy I made sure Gabriel knew about Sonik Synth 2, SampleTank and Miroslav Philharmonik and got him hip to other IK products. But it was interesting that this was the one that lured him in... and he is considered someone who is very inventive and innovative in music.
Well, okay, that's my opinion. As I said, it is something fun. Grooves on the go! Haha. Don't worry that the focus is going to change to only products for iPhone or anything. As long as products like the TR Singles are selling like mad you can rest assured that there will be more of that too. These days products have to be made more strict to the demand and a wide audience also helps. The truth is that IK is probably going to sell a ton of these Groove Maker apps for the iPhone. But, also thanks to the popularity of the TR Singles I think you can look forward to some of the requests in my other thread happening some day too! Nothing supports future development better than sales and the next best thing is people requesting it through emails to the company or even better right here in a public forum. I try to offer a place for wishing and asking (should mainly be for SR but if it is closely related model or sample-based products such as those from IK we allow it - as long as it is constructive convo).
Alright that is this morning's mega post!
The Big IK Multimedia Announcement
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
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- KVRAF
- 2674 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from The Void
I have two outstanding thoughts regarding this app:
1) It will likely sell a fair amount - it's just the nature with iPhone apps, and whilst I don't blame IK for pursuing such a direction, I think they're cashing in somewhat.
2) In order to restore confidence and actually make the app usable, it needs to import user loops directly, and I don't believe it does this. It could be me being very cynical, but I suspect they plan to make most of the money from selling packs rather than actually allowing musicians the flexibility they'd want.
I hope I'm wrong, but if there's no user-content import, it's really hardly different from what's out there already. There's no technical reason why it can't be done, so far as the iPhone is concerned, as we've seen other apps do it (and I don't mean the "upload to our server, and we'll push it out" technique).
I own quite a few music apps on the iPhone, and I'm certainly not averse to buying more, but if they're locked in to proprietary content (yes, I know I can 'export' the result), then I'm not interested. I know many people like to buy loop packs - I have done - but I already have many many many loops from over the years, and I would like to use them.
The reason most people (I imagine) thought it was a DAW or something else, is because of the "world changing" hype that was thrown around. To be honest, it's similar to Propellerheads Record in that way.
(For clarity, I'm not knocking IK - I own most of their software and really like it. I'm just disappointed that the big announcements is far more 'closed' and limited than I could have imagined)
Oh, and thanks Squids for re-opening the thread.
1) It will likely sell a fair amount - it's just the nature with iPhone apps, and whilst I don't blame IK for pursuing such a direction, I think they're cashing in somewhat.
2) In order to restore confidence and actually make the app usable, it needs to import user loops directly, and I don't believe it does this. It could be me being very cynical, but I suspect they plan to make most of the money from selling packs rather than actually allowing musicians the flexibility they'd want.
I hope I'm wrong, but if there's no user-content import, it's really hardly different from what's out there already. There's no technical reason why it can't be done, so far as the iPhone is concerned, as we've seen other apps do it (and I don't mean the "upload to our server, and we'll push it out" technique).
I own quite a few music apps on the iPhone, and I'm certainly not averse to buying more, but if they're locked in to proprietary content (yes, I know I can 'export' the result), then I'm not interested. I know many people like to buy loop packs - I have done - but I already have many many many loops from over the years, and I would like to use them.
The reason most people (I imagine) thought it was a DAW or something else, is because of the "world changing" hype that was thrown around. To be honest, it's similar to Propellerheads Record in that way.
(For clarity, I'm not knocking IK - I own most of their software and really like it. I'm just disappointed that the big announcements is far more 'closed' and limited than I could have imagined)
Oh, and thanks Squids for re-opening the thread.
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- KVRist
- 115 posts since 25 Dec, 2008
i don't think it will sell that well at all. if it was 1.99 and they marketed it well it could sell really well i betkoalaboy wrote:
1) It will likely sell a fair amount - it's just the nature with iPhone apps, and whilst I don't blame IK for pursuing such a direction, I think they're cashing in somewhat.
but a 10+ dollar app is usually reserved for the more innovative apps designed for a niche market. i doubt some random non-musician is going to spend more than 2 bucks on a music making app when there are plenty of free ones out there to mess around with
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- KVRAF
- 5515 posts since 6 May, 2002
Perhaps you could convince IK to make a slimmed down version of Amplitube and X-Gear that doesn't kill RAM. They don't seem to be listening.Squids wrote:Thanks for looking out DarkStar. We can keep the thread open. But let's please try to keep it from actual bashing on IK, a company SR does business with.
Amplitube X Stomps
Amplitube X Amps
Amplitube X Rack FX
Amplitube X-Gear Stomps
Amplitube X-Gear Amps
Amplitube X-Gear Rack FX
Intel Core2 Quad CPU + 4 GIG RAM
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- KVRAF
- 3125 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia
I sincerely hope they'll sell bucketloads. Really.
Just to finance the emulations and stuff we drool over (bring on EMI/TG stuff I say
).
Still, after all the buildup and views they got during this mega-succesfull group-buy, I think it's really
lame (oh well, maybe just not for me).
k
Just to finance the emulations and stuff we drool over (bring on EMI/TG stuff I say
).Still, after all the buildup and views they got during this mega-succesfull group-buy, I think it's really
lame (oh well, maybe just not for me).
k
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- KVRAF
- 10170 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
you should record some sexy sax-loops for them, Klemen!
They'll call it: Ljoopljana Saxy Groove Maker
cheersz
meh
They'll call it: Ljoopljana Saxy Groove Maker
cheersz
meh
"It dreamed itself along"
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- KVRAF
- 3125 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia
he hemellotronaut wrote:you should record some sexy sax-loops for them, Klemen!
They'll call it: Ljoopljana Saxy Groove Maker
cheersz
meh
I'm in.
Anyway, I'm still on the fence over singles deal. I guess my saxophones could do with some Fairchild love ...
k
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- KVRAF
- 10170 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
dodododoit
"It dreamed itself along"
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- KVRAF
- 12205 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA
clairvoyant?Sequent wrote:i'm sure i'm waaaaay off on a tangent here... but, how big is the memory and storage in an iPhone?
Logic Pro | LUNA Pro | OB-X8 | Prophet 6 | OB-6 | Rev2 | TEO-5 | Pro 3 | SE-1X | Minitaur | Deepmind 12D | Integra-7 | TR-1000 | Analog RYTM mk2 | Digitakt 2 | TD-3 MO | TD-3 | Maschine+
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- KVRist
- 164 posts since 26 Feb, 2006 from Northern NJ
Squids, you're the best even if you tease the crap out of us. I like the challange.... Keeps the mind clear. As far as loops...great for marketing and sales but in the long run, I think it hurts the younger generation because it's like digital watches...they can tell you what time it but put an analog watch on, they never learned how the wheel spins.... So sometimes I'm glad to be an old fart,
Bobn
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
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- KVRist
- 291 posts since 25 Apr, 2005 from GerMansk
mh...
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Hey, listen you're preaching to the choir if you talk about that musicians should be encouraged to still PLAY their instrument. 90% of what I do at Sonic Reality are products that have traditionally required people to be able to PLAY. That's what iMap is! Only now are there finally going to be iMap midi files so you can get out of having to "finger drum practice" 
(even though it is so rewarding... can't you guys see how much fun I have doing it?)
The reality is that there are all kinds of music creators out there though and one method isn't more valid than the next. To each his own. Groove Maker and other iPhone apps make a bit of music making more accessible to a wider audience. Nothing wrong with that! It's up to each person if they use it and don't choose to explore learning instruments further. The reality is that it reaches more people though and usually does lure them into our world of musical instruments and "gear". Look at the popularity of Rock Band and Guitar Hero. Sure, that is a freakin' TOY but the amount of people who then want to play a REAL guitar is growing because of it. Some people who use Groove Maker may eventually buy SampleTank or other tools on their computer. The same way around - the people like you and I that have DAWs and plug-ins may get Groove Maker for one simple reason... it's fun? Inexpensive? We don't have to subject it to the same scrutiny as buying a $400 plug-in! It's a $10 app that mixes loops interactively in a unique and clever way.
Sure, it does half the work for you and one can turn their nose up to it. I FULLY realize (and even told you guys) that it is pure coincidence that it happened at the same time as the TR Singles and I tried to warn you it had nothing whatsoever to do with TR Singles or the timing of it. Two completely separate things. How it was presented with the hype threw everyone off and in a way that's good because it can't always be predictable. IK spreads out and does a lot of things covering a lot of territory for a lot of music creators. As some of you put it (and I agree) if it reaches more customers and fuels the fire to do more TR Singles and other products then we can't complain as IK users. As long as there is a healthy demand for the products you love then you're safe! No worries. I am sure IK will do more guitar, keyboard and engineering products. Those are my main interests too!
I think the hype can be a bit much sometimes but it is all in good fun and you have to admit we had fun guessing and teasing! Now the cat is out of the bag and hey for $10 (the price of a freakin' lunch) you can either get it for your iPhone if you have one or not. Try the free version at least and see what you think. I am probably the least into loops of most people since I can play and even I find myself hypnotized by cool gadgets like that (and yes I have a whole slew of other iPhone music apps too... I like them! I admit it!!!! They're fun!).
(even though it is so rewarding... can't you guys see how much fun I have doing it?)The reality is that there are all kinds of music creators out there though and one method isn't more valid than the next. To each his own. Groove Maker and other iPhone apps make a bit of music making more accessible to a wider audience. Nothing wrong with that! It's up to each person if they use it and don't choose to explore learning instruments further. The reality is that it reaches more people though and usually does lure them into our world of musical instruments and "gear". Look at the popularity of Rock Band and Guitar Hero. Sure, that is a freakin' TOY but the amount of people who then want to play a REAL guitar is growing because of it. Some people who use Groove Maker may eventually buy SampleTank or other tools on their computer. The same way around - the people like you and I that have DAWs and plug-ins may get Groove Maker for one simple reason... it's fun? Inexpensive? We don't have to subject it to the same scrutiny as buying a $400 plug-in! It's a $10 app that mixes loops interactively in a unique and clever way.
Sure, it does half the work for you and one can turn their nose up to it. I FULLY realize (and even told you guys) that it is pure coincidence that it happened at the same time as the TR Singles and I tried to warn you it had nothing whatsoever to do with TR Singles or the timing of it. Two completely separate things. How it was presented with the hype threw everyone off and in a way that's good because it can't always be predictable. IK spreads out and does a lot of things covering a lot of territory for a lot of music creators. As some of you put it (and I agree) if it reaches more customers and fuels the fire to do more TR Singles and other products then we can't complain as IK users. As long as there is a healthy demand for the products you love then you're safe! No worries. I am sure IK will do more guitar, keyboard and engineering products. Those are my main interests too!
I think the hype can be a bit much sometimes but it is all in good fun and you have to admit we had fun guessing and teasing! Now the cat is out of the bag and hey for $10 (the price of a freakin' lunch) you can either get it for your iPhone if you have one or not. Try the free version at least and see what you think. I am probably the least into loops of most people since I can play and even I find myself hypnotized by cool gadgets like that (and yes I have a whole slew of other iPhone music apps too... I like them! I admit it!!!! They're fun!).