What is the difference between music and noise? [years-dead slappyfight revived]

[vurt]

an example of audience decison could be "this beethoven feller, i dont like him i think its just noise"
does that make beethoven noise? of course not.
its music he doesnt like.

[eduardo_b]

the audience decides nothing.
other than whether they "enjoy" something.
other than that they are just, well, there.

So the artist doesn't need the audience?

You're not very good at words are you?

How does 'the audience decides nothing' translate to 'So the artist doesn't need an audience?'

I'm actually better with words than many. First, the audience decides everything. The artist, unless he or she is trying to write for the audience instead of them self, can't control what makes people want to see and hear an artist...and spend money to do so. Second, I posed the question of the artist actually needing an audience. Different concept.

[whyterabbyt]

unless the artist wants to make a living with his/her work.

so by 'artist' you mean 'talent show contestant?'

[vurt]

and spend money to do so.

why are you obsessed with "money"?
this is a theory thread, not a capitalism seminar.

[robogone]

I'm actually better with words than many.

So I guess you're being deliberately obtuse then?

First, the audience decides everything.

So the band members don't even make decisions on which notes to play? Interesting.

I posed the question of the artist actually needing an audience. Different concept.

That would be a different concept, but what you actually said was:

The audience is in control.

[eduardo_b]

an example of audience decison could be "this beethoven feller, i dont like him i think its just noise"
does that make beethoven noise? of course not.
its music he doesnt like.

I sort of don't think classical music gets into the noise category with many people, but black metal might qualify.

[whyterabbyt]

I sort of don't think classical music gets into the noise category with many people

bzzzt. revisit the response to 'Rites of Spring,' why dont you?

[vurt]

an example of audience decison could be "this beethoven feller, i dont like him i think its just noise"
does that make beethoven noise? of course not.
its music he doesnt like.

I sort of don't think classical music gets into the noise category with many people, but black metal might qualify.

so some genres the audience dislike makes it noise in others its different, i see...

[vurt]

plus most "black metal" gigs ive been too, the audience seemed to be following and enjoying the musicality of said "audio output".
so im not sure your point makes sense.

[eduardo_b]

I'm actually better with words than many.

So I guess you're being deliberately obtuse then?

First, the audience decides everything.

So the band members don't even make decisions on which notes to play? Interesting.

I posed the question of the artist actually needing an audience. Different concept.

That would be a different concept, but what you actually said was:

The audience is in control.

You're creating a false conflict. The artist can choose to do whatever they want and are capable of. The audience can choose to ignore it, or not...neither of which is within the control of the artist unless he or she attempts to cater to what the audience wants...and even that might not work.

[robogone]

I sort of don't think classical music gets into the noise category with many people

bzzzt. revisit the response to 'Rites of Spring,' why dont you?

Or actually listen to it before making generalizations that don't hold true.

[eduardo_b]

plus most "black metal" gigs ive been too, the audience seemed to be following and enjoying the musicality of said "audio output".
so im not sure your point makes sense.

Let's put it this way. The further afield from mainstream that music is -- including experimental music -- the more likely that more people will consider it noise, not music...even though it's classified as music. It's an emotional reaction to what they don't understand or don't like.

[vurt]

The audience can choose to ignore it, or not

indeed, they dont however get to label it. thats the artists job.

[eduardo_b]

The audience can choose to ignore it, or not

indeed, they dont however get to label it. thats the artists job.

Label it how?

[vurt]

plus most "black metal" gigs ive been too, the audience seemed to be following and enjoying the musicality of said "audio output".
so im not sure your point makes sense.

Let's put it this way. The further afield from mainstream that music is -- including experimental music -- the more likely that more people will consider it noise, not music...even though it's classified as music. It's an emotional reaction to what they don't understand or don't like.

but its still "music" if that was the artists intent.
i dont care if the majoity say red is blue, it doesnt make it so.