KVR Audio

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:13 pm

Hopefully real Metro isn't as bad as the shitty half-assed Metro taste the latest Xbox update offered. It sucks with controller, Kinect, and this would make me hope it actually works well for touch or maybe it was modified too much for the console and they took out anything that was actually good and usable about it. If it is even half like the current Xbox Metro-ized feel, I'm not psyched at all. The only reason I'd want anything mobile that runs windows would be for the Xbox Live support (certain games, etc) and for music sketching, DAW control, and all that I'd stick to other mobile devices.

bM3w · Post by **bM3w** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:43 pm

eDrummist wrote:
bM3w wrote:
eDrummist wrote:Apple gave us the iPod, Microsoft gave us the Zune. Apple gave us iOS, Microsoft gave us Windows Mobile.
Hard to blieve you are a "tech marketer" as you call yourself. You do know that Windows Mobile was there before ios? If at all ios was the answer to Windows Mobile. And to complete the story: Microsofts answer to ios is Windows Phone, which is a completely different product compared to Windows Mobile.

I think you're a little biased

Back to topic: Windows 8 can be as simple as an iPad via it's Metro interface and it's apps written particularly for it, but it also can get as complex as a PC with a full Windows in the back pocket. So technically that's clearly an iPad killer. If it's going to be an iPad killer in terms of market share, well, I guess time will tell.
I don't know what you're saying. You've apparently misread my post. I worked in marketing on what was one of the most successful Windows Mobile phones (using Windows Mobile) and also worked on a co-branded phone with Apple. My point was that Windows Mobile was Microsoft's try at a mobile OS when it really mattered and it was a failure. iOS was Apple's first attempt at a mobile OS when it really mattered and it was a success. Microsoft losing that opportunity to own the market will be, imo, the largest single factor in the decline of the brand/company. Let me be clear, Windows Mobile was a failure and Microsoft is very unlikely to overtake the market with their new mobile OS and become the leading consumer mobile OS at this point. It's just not going to happen. The odds are as likely as Bing overtaking Google.

When Microsoft released Windows Mobile, they had a golden opportunity to own the market. I was in the mobile phone industry, as I mentioned, working on the biggest selling Windows mobile phone. Microsoft was an incredibly larger company than Apple and their was no iPhone, but everyone in the industry knew it was coming. Microsoft had a multi-year start to get their OS worked out. They failed. Now Microsoft is going to have to play catchup to Apple's iOS and Android; that's an incredibly tougher battle for Microsoft. I suspect Microsoft will be most successful with the enterprise market, but won't be very successful with the consumer market. At least, it won't be taking away a sizable market share from Apple; I'm certain of it.

- Peter

I'm sorry, but it sounded like you were saying Micrsoft put out Windows Mobile as an answer to ios/iphone, which wouldn't have been possible, since it was released earlier.

Anyway, in opposite to you I'm certain Windows 8 tablets will take away a sizeable market share from Apple. Windows Phone doesn't and it probably is still years away from doing so, but more and more people are getting tired with the same old iPhone x.y every other year and that's good for competition.

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:47 pm

As long as they don't price themselves out of the market. I know the predictions/rumors/whatever estimate they aren't but it seemed the same with Chromebooks and now people simply say "no way I'm paying $500 for a Chromebook" and it seems to be dying. I know iPad is still going to be priced higher regardless, but they really need to price this right to make a good play, I'd think. Either way, I do hope it sparks more competition and benefits the consumer in that way regardless of their platform of choice.

bM3w · Post by **bM3w** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:23 pm

buscemi wrote:As long as they don't price themselves out of the market. I know the predictions/rumors/whatever estimate they aren't but it seemed the same with Chromebooks and now people simply say "no way I'm paying $500 for a Chromebook" and it seems to be dying. I know iPad is still going to be priced higher regardless, but they really need to price this right to make a good play, I'd think. Either way, I do hope it sparks more competition and benefits the consumer in that way regardless of their platform of choice.

Yep, pricing is critical. That aside I also hope manufacturers have learned not to clutter their products with their OEM crap, which is usually the reason why many people think Windows sucks when it's actually the incredible bloat of useless 3rd party software that weakens the experience.

BMoore · Post by **BMoore** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:44 pm

distant_signal wrote:
Insaniac wrote:Imminent release?!
http://www.yourdictionary.com/imminent[/url]

I know what imminent means, smartass, I just don't think Win8 is that close to release.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:10 am

I think Win8 will have a similar impact as Win95 had. For those of us who remember it well, Win95 taught Apple quite a bit about interface as a matter of fact.

But as far as I'm concerned, what I'd like as a musician is portable wireless N touchscreen monitors. I'd love to have my DAW on the big 24" PC monitor, and to put softsynths, consoles or other devices on portable touch-screens around my keyboards. It'll be awhile before the hardware and software matures around them (Win 8 will have to accommodate wireless monitors and WACOM will have to introduce new models), but I predict that wireless touchscreen monitors will become more ubiquitous, more useful for getting real content created, and cheaper than pads for most people.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:17 am

Insaniac wrote:
distant_signal wrote:
Insaniac wrote:Imminent release?!
http://www.yourdictionary.com/imminent[/url]
I know what imminent means, smartass, I just don't think Win8 is that close to release.

It's close. Seems like it will be released before October 2012. Actually, you can try a preview already from here: [mod edit: Domain looks dodgy. See post below for official download link.]

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:57 am

I don't think I'd download from a domain not owned by Microsoft, "whoisguard" protection cloaking their real contact info, on some generic one-OF-a-million no-name hosting company... But that's just me...

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:03 am

Official Windows 8 preview download :

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516

BMoore · Post by **BMoore** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:26 am

October 2012 is close?!
Oh well...

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:33 am

bM3w wrote:
eDrummist wrote:Apple gave us the iPod, Microsoft gave us the Zune. Apple gave us iOS, Microsoft gave us Windows Mobile.
Hard to blieve you are a "tech marketer" as you call yourself. You do know that Windows Mobile was there before ios? If at all ios was the answer to Windows Mobile. And to complete the story: Microsofts answer to ios is Windows Phone, which is a completely different product compared to Windows Mobile.

Jeeezzzz, this is not less precise than what you are answering to. Before Windows Mobile there was the Apple Newton, a handheld organizer - before Palm, before Windows Mobile. And at the time of iOS (or iPhoneoOS at that time) Windows Mobile was pretty dead already.
And yes, Windows Phone 7 is the answer to iOS. It is less open than Windows Mobile but compared to Windows Mobile it does not build onto totally crippled Windows frameworks, it has a subset of Windows frameworks that are compatible to some degree (as it is with iOS and MacOSX).

And the poster was write - Apple introduced the iPad, Microsoft the Zune. Apple iOS and the iPhone, Microsoft Windows Mobile, Windows Phone and that funny little thing (KIN) they had for two weeks ..

hahaha, that is funny - not correct though I hope:
"Anatomy of failure: Mobile flops from RIM, Microsoft, and Nokia ... Microsoft produced its own disastrous mobile platform, Windows Phone 7. "

I mean a good question would be if a Microsoft manager that said shortly after the release of the first iPhone that in a couple of weeks no one will talk about that anymore is really capable of running a cooperation that wants to succeed in the mobile market.

Microsoft, as a pure software company, has it really hard there. I mean Apple has full integration. Google cooperates for single devices with hardware manufacturers. And Microsoft - they still do not seem to get it that for a mobile device integration of software, hardware and interaction is key. And their crown prince Nokia just release their first Windows Phone in terms of hardware and software features is miles behind Google/Samsung and Apple. Microsoft has either to get closer together with Nokia (probably pissing off other manufacturers) or they should get RIM (or both - as it was in the news a couple of days ago, that MS and Nokia thought about buying RIM).

This will get even more important when we go direction tablet - look at how elegant the iPad is - the handling. for a device that is too big for the pocket and too small for a TV or computer, this seems quite important.
Google is getting better when it comes to standardizing the interplay between software, hardware and app development.

Microsoft better get their act together. They are no longer the giant - Apple is quite strong these days and Google and Samsung also. So, not sure if money alone can fix it this time (as it was often the last resort for Microsoft - the browser war, internet war, etc.) And with a dead OS (Windows Mobile), a flopped device (KIN) and a new OS that after about one year still has a smaller market share than its predecessor Microsoft has to deliver.

Apple has a good position in there. They have a computer OS, they have the best selling tablet and can wait what Microsoft does. If Microsoft goes ARM tablet - they can just go one like that. If microsoft goes Intel tablet - well, OSX is Intel as well, they have all the media technology on Intel with OSX and can either tune OSX or iOS to have the right answer. Maybe they even go there first with the next iPad generation in a couple of weeks or with new Macs (having an iPad and the iMacAir or so - with USB, Thunderbold and an Intel i-CPU).

It would be nice to see Microsoft a bit more in the game there (personally I think Windows Phone 7 is a more interesting alternative to iOS than Android in terms of GUI design and interaction design). However currently, with a market share so high that even Microsoft's own Skype says it is not worth supporting a platform that is just a minor player ... hmmmm ...

best

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:38 am

fmr wrote:
Insaniac wrote:
distant_signal wrote:
Insaniac wrote:Imminent release?!
http://www.yourdictionary.com/imminent[/url]
I know what imminent means, smartass, I just don't think Win8 is that close to release.
It's close. Seems like it will be released before October 2012. Actually, you can try a preview already from here: [mod edit: Domain looks dodgy. See post below for official download link.]

Before October? close? before that we will see most likely the next iPad generation, perhaps the next iPhone generation and the next iOS generation, pretty sure the next major release of Android with new Android tablets all the way. That is about the time it took Nokia from their glorious announcement of switching to Windows Phone 7 to delivering their first device ... see, what they made out of it ....

For mobile development 9 to 10 months is a very, very long time.

best

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:13 pm

steff3 wrote:
fmr wrote:
Insaniac wrote:
distant_signal wrote:
Insaniac wrote:Imminent release?!
http://www.yourdictionary.com/imminent[/url]
I know what imminent means, smartass, I just don't think Win8 is that close to release.
It's close. Seems like it will be released before October 2012. Actually, you can try a preview already from here: [mod edit: Domain looks dodgy. See post below for official download link.]
Before October? close? before that we will see most likely the next iPad generation, perhaps the next iPhone generation and the next iOS generation, pretty sure the next major release of Android with new Android tablets all the way. That is about the time it took Nokia from their glorious announcement of switching to Windows Phone 7 to delivering their first device ... see, what they made out of it ....

For mobile development 9 to 10 months is a very, very long time.

best

Considering what has been done with iPad, so far, and the flop the last iPhone was (when comparing what was expected to what was delivered), I wouldn't expect much more from iOS. As many already said, there are things that simply can't be done with fingers alone, and expansion possibilities are very important.

Your reaction is typical of someone who sees a menace: first they desdain, then they deny. As far as I'm concerned, I couldn't care less. I am no iOS fan, or their close architecture, nor am I a fan of tablets (the way they are now). If Microsoft does it right (as it seems by the Samsung model presented) then great. If not, I will still have laptops, therefore, I don't loose a thing.
And it's funny you mentioned Android/Google/Samsung so much in your post - you seem to forget the Apple lawsuit (the one they just lost). For someone so "innovative", they seem very greedy and afraid of competition.

Take that "fanboy".

bM3w · Post by **bM3w** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:23 pm

steff3 wrote:
bM3w wrote:
eDrummist wrote:Apple gave us the iPod, Microsoft gave us the Zune. Apple gave us iOS, Microsoft gave us Windows Mobile.
Hard to blieve you are a "tech marketer" as you call yourself. You do know that Windows Mobile was there before ios? If at all ios was the answer to Windows Mobile. And to complete the story: Microsofts answer to ios is Windows Phone, which is a completely different product compared to Windows Mobile.
Jeeezzzz, this is not less precise than what you are answering to. Before Windows Mobile there was the Apple Newton, a handheld organizer - before Palm, before Windows Mobile. And at the time of iOS (or iPhoneoOS at that time) Windows Mobile was pretty dead already.
And yes, Windows Phone 7 is the answer to iOS. It is less open than Windows Mobile but compared to Windows Mobile it does not build onto totally crippled Windows frameworks, it has a subset of Windows frameworks that are compatible to some degree (as it is with iOS and MacOSX).

And the poster was write - Apple introduced the iPad, Microsoft the Zune. Apple iOS and the iPhone, Microsoft Windows Mobile, Windows Phone and that funny little thing (KIN) they had for two weeks ..

Jeeezzzz, it was about the order of events. Nothing less, nothing more

eDrummist · Post by **eDrummist** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:23 pm

bM3w wrote:
steff3 wrote:
bM3w wrote:
eDrummist wrote:Apple gave us the iPod, Microsoft gave us the Zune. Apple gave us iOS, Microsoft gave us Windows Mobile.
Hard to blieve you are a "tech marketer" as you call yourself. You do know that Windows Mobile was there before ios? If at all ios was the answer to Windows Mobile. And to complete the story: Microsofts answer to ios is Windows Phone, which is a completely different product compared to Windows Mobile.
Jeeezzzz, this is not less precise than what you are answering to. Before Windows Mobile there was the Apple Newton, a handheld organizer - before Palm, before Windows Mobile. And at the time of iOS (or iPhoneoOS at that time) Windows Mobile was pretty dead already.
And yes, Windows Phone 7 is the answer to iOS. It is less open than Windows Mobile but compared to Windows Mobile it does not build onto totally crippled Windows frameworks, it has a subset of Windows frameworks that are compatible to some degree (as it is with iOS and MacOSX).

And the poster was write - Apple introduced the iPad, Microsoft the Zune. Apple iOS and the iPhone, Microsoft Windows Mobile, Windows Phone and that funny little thing (KIN) they had for two weeks ..
Jeeezzzz, it was about the order of events. Nothing less, nothing more

Yeah, now I understand how you misinterpreted my post. I wasn't presenting OSes in historical order but presenting how Apple and Microsoft both entered the market and how Microsoft has a history of failure in this area. Even Microsoft CEO Balmer famously stated, Microsoft "screwed up with Windows Mobile."

I certainly don't think that Microsoft won't grab some market share if their upcoming mobile OS is good, my point is that IF Windows Mobile was good, Microsoft would have had a ton of market share and Microsoft wouldn't have found itself in the position of being in an uphill battle, an unproven entity against market leaders Apple and Android. Consumers and business users have become very loyal to the iPhone/iOS and that is going to be a challenge for any competitor to overcome. As I stated earlier, I think Microsoft's greatest opportunity to grab market share is with enterprises, not consumers. But arriving this late to the game is going to make that a very costly battle. If Microsoft would have gotten this right with Windows Mobile, they certainly would have owned the enterprise market today. Once users become familiar and loyal to other brands (in this case OSes), it's extremely difficult to get any brand loyal customer to switch. But Windows Mobile had an opportunity to be the OS most mobile phone makers used. Another challenge Microsoft now has to over is that many consumers and business users who used Windows Mobile will be resistant against their future efforts (basically feeling, "once bitten, twice shy"). Consider a 2009 study from CFI Group asking users to rate satisfaction of their mobile OS, where 100 is perfectly satisfied:

Windows Mobile (66), BlackBerry (73), Palm Pre (77), Google Android (77), and iPhone (83).

[Edit: Corrected a couple of typos and, I'm certain, missed others.]

Windows 8 tablets, ipad killer??