Is Sonar X1 the best for me? In regards to included VST's, plugins, etc.

[pc999]

If you want built in instruments give a look at propellerheads's Reason 6, it is almost all you will ever need and a great value with great synths/sounds/fx, soon with plug ins too.

[ghettosynth]

That's a good point that if you like the cake fx you can use them in any host.

btw glad I'm not the first one who said the "r" word

I should say also, that since you're into beats, one of the nicest tools in cubase is the beat designer. That said, it has features that drive me nuts. IIRC, you can't open the window far enough to fully edit 32 step sequences without moving the scroll bar. It might have been 64, but, in any case, my monitor had the resolution, but the tool wouldn't cooperate.

Since it's a VST-MA midi effect, you can't use it in anything else even if Steinberg allowed it, because no other host supports it.

What killed it for me though, is the irritating drum name mapping that's required to have anything labeled in cubase. I just find the workflow in Cubase tiresome.

[hibidy]

Cubase comes pretty complete. I don't know if you need a dongle to demo that anymore.

I'll say this, I like the effects. The synths, at least the old ones, suck. The Halion-Lite that comes with it is also decent. Groove Agent or whatever the drum machine is, is comical.

Also, I have to give the edge to cakewalk here, cubase does not allow you to load their plugins into another host. Of course, you can't load live's plugins either since they're not VSTs.

perhaps for what I want to do as an non-serious musician, HS6XL is enough. I don't know. I guess I want more synths and sounds, but do I really need them?

I heard some samples from Zeta+ 2 and they sounded loud and good. The samples in my program aren't as loud and powerful. Maybe I need to tweak?

Oh well, I just glanced at Cubase's features and they impressive me, though I don't know how good the included VST's and effects are, and in comparison to Sonar X1's.

Hmmmmmmmm. I'm suspicious of something (see the bold) frequently, examples are tweaked, compressed/limited quite a bit to "sell" a product. There are digital limitations you have to work in with this. Just thought I'd point that out.

[hibidy]

Something that needs mentioning is the new workflow in Sonar X1, it is completely different than Home studio XL so you would be basically relearning the program again. I would buy the Sonar X1LE package for 19.00 dollars first and try it out. It don't come with much but it's good for starters and it wont time out on you.

here is the link if your interested:http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/Pro ... G31.00-20E

Another good suggestion.

[hibidy]

That's a good point that if you like the cake fx you can use them in any host.

btw glad I'm not the first one who said the "r" word

I should say also, that since you're into beats, one of the nicest tools in cubase is the beat designer. That said, it has features that drive me nuts. IIRC, you can't open the window far enough to fully edit 32 step sequences without moving the scroll bar. It might have been 64, but, in any case, my monitor had the resolution, but the tool wouldn't cooperate.

Since it's a VST-MA midi effect, you can't use it in anything else even if Steinberg allowed it, because no other host supports it.

What killed it for me though, is the irritating drum name mapping that's required to have anything labeled in cubase. I just find the workflow in Cubase tiresome.

Please do not remind of drum mapping in cubase

[3ptguitarist]

Cubase comes pretty complete. I don't know if you need a dongle to demo that anymore.

I'll say this, I like the effects. The synths, at least the old ones, suck. The Halion-Lite that comes with it is also decent. Groove Agent or whatever the drum machine is, is comical.

Also, I have to give the edge to cakewalk here, cubase does not allow you to load their plugins into another host. Of course, you can't load live's plugins either since they're not VSTs.

perhaps for what I want to do as an non-serious musician, HS6XL is enough. I don't know. I guess I want more synths and sounds, but do I really need them?

I heard some samples from Zeta+ 2 and they sounded loud and good. The samples in my program aren't as loud and powerful. Maybe I need to tweak?

Oh well, I just glanced at Cubase's features and they impressive me, though I don't know how good the included VST's and effects are, and in comparison to Sonar X1's.

Hmmmmmmmm. I'm suspicious of something (see the bold) frequently, examples are tweaked, compressed/limited quite a bit to "sell" a product. There are digital limitations you have to work in with this. Just thought I'd point that out.

So those zeta patches and presets are compressed/limited?

I used to play with reason 3 and wouldn't mind getting 6. But I like the workspace of daws moreso than the way reason works I wouldn't mind having reason as a rewire device. Also is it me or do reason patches sound thin and low in volume compared to other synths or is that cuz they aren't compressed/limited?

[ghettosynth]

If you want built in instruments give a look at propellerheads's Reason 6, it is almost all you will ever need and a great value with great synths/sounds/fx, soon with plug ins too.

For sure, I reallly like Reason. I liked it better when it wasn't linked to a dongle, but, it's a great piece of software. Where it falls short is in bringing loops into the "DAW." If you want to load them in Dr. Rex, then no problem; it's easy to copy the pattern to the track and mix it up. But, copy in a wave file and you'll have to futz around getting it lined up to the beat manually. Once you do that, the time stretching is great, but it's nothing compared to other DAWS.

[JJBiener]

Something that needs mentioning is the new workflow in Sonar X1, it is completely different than Home studio XL so you would be basically relearning the program again. I would buy the Sonar X1LE package for 19.00 dollars first and try it out. It don't come with much but it's good for starters and it wont time out on you.

I had Home Studio 7 before I upgraded to X1. There were a few things I had to learn, but the workflow was pretty much the same. That said, picking X1 LE is a good suggestion.

[Gonga]

I've heard some pros swear by Reaper, but I don't know much about it.

I've been using Cakewalk longer than I want to admit. X1 is buggy and unstable. BUT, I think for a Windows DAW it's as good as any other. One thing I like is it's flexibility. You don't tend to run into inherent limitations, you can do just about anything. If I were rich I'd spring for a Mac a Logic just to try it, but ...

I think Reason doesn't allow vsts, and I can't imagine not being able to build up my own kit with vsts these days, but I'm no expert, that's just what I've heard.

I used to use Cubase and a good friend of mine does. I feel (and he does too I think) that x1 has a bit of an edge over Cubase.

In my opinion, none of the fully-featured DAWs are that great though. You are better off getting Komplete and an entry-level DAW than a fully-featured one. The only problem with this theory though is that the fully-featured ones tend to include must-have features these days rather than candy. X1 is especially this way now.

I wonder if any of the online mags have a "shootout" review of the major DAWs?

Though I think X1 is one of the best Windows DAWs today, unfortunately the answer is no where near clear-cut. It will pay to do your homework, try some demos, and decide what will work best for your needs. If you do upgrade to X1, there are a few of us here who should be able to help you out if you have questions.

Good luck!

[CTStump]

I had Home Studio 7 before I upgraded to X1. There were a few things I had to learn, but the workflow was pretty much the same. That said, picking X1 LE is a good suggestion.

The Silverlight interface to me was a roadblock at first and the humungous Control Bar took some getting use to, the Smart tool, No buttons, no floating Panels and inefficient use of monitor space, the lack of color changes (that needed outside development), took me quite a while to get the creative flow back, but that's me so maybe the OP could grasp it faster than this ole goat.

[hibidy]

Reaper

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It's almost the perfect host. Except for that midi And the devs don't care.

[ghettosynth]

I think Reason doesn't allow vsts, and I can't imagine not being able to build up my own kit with vsts these days, but I'm no expert, that's just what I've heard.

It does not. I'm not a Reason apologist, but that's often not the limitation that you would think. I have yet to be as productive in anything else as I am in Reason. Reason gets the little things right even if they seem to miss some things as broad as a barn door. I think that it does matter here what kinds of sounds and effects that you are looking for.

Though I think X1 is one of the best Windows DAWs today

That could be, but all of my windows cakewalk experiences have left me cold. Cakewalk seems a bit out of touch.

[hibidy]

You know what, it' a law of averages. NONE are going to be a "one size fits all"....I know.......I've tried. I'm a host refugee in many ways, they ALL leave me cold.

[ghettosynth]

You know what, it' a law of averages. NONE are going to be a "one size fits all"....I know.......I've tried. I'm a host refugee in many ways, they ALL leave me cold.

That's almost pointlessly defeatist. I think that there are five strong standouts for various reasons.

Live: Unique interface that is really conducive to dance music production. The user interface really aids productivity visually. I know at a glance if the eq is before or after the compressor and without changing windows or bringing a window forward I can quickly change the effects parameters. It is the ONLY DAW with something as integrated as MAX for live, which, for me at least, is powerful and genuinely useful. If you are doing modern electronic music it is probably the best choice.

Reason: Very familiar user interface for someone coming from hardware. It really is more reliable than the others and it really does consume fewer CPU cycles. It's also very productive and the workflow for many applications is top-notch. I think that it is hands down, the best sketch environment and if you don't find the synths/effets limiting, you may not need anything else.

Reaper: Absolutely the best value IMNSHO. It is my goto DAW for traditional multitrack recording, for quick ACIDesqe sketches, and for using NINJAM. It comes with a collection of usable effects and has my second favorite VST organization. Actually, it's my favorite if you consider that my top choice requires me to route rack controls to VST parameters. It's routing is extremely flexible, if not a little bit confusing. For the price, one could get Komplete and Reaper for the price of the other DAWs (except Logic) and, IMNSHO, have a better collection of tools which could be used in any other DAW.

Logic: The only long running DAW that I often hear pros rave about and comes with very usable synths and effects. It's clean and beautiful, has a nice work flow, and is low cost.

Pro Tools: Because everyone uses it.

I still have a cubase license and cakewalk LE licenses and full licenses of old versions of cakewalk. I cut my teeth on cakewalk, it was my first midi sequencer, but, in my opinion, both Steinberg and 12 Tone (Cakewalk) have failed to keep up.

[3ptguitarist]

ghettosynth: what do you think about Reason's sound? Does it sound thin to you compared to third party synths?