that's a good point. I find they have often been in line with software I already own. but I take your point and its a good one.Harry_HH wrote:Why do you "usually trust THESE guys"? The challange with ALL the commercial special magazines (and 99 % of these are commercial) is the tight connection between advertiser/manufacturer and the media economy - therefore you very seldom find really critical evaluations in these publications. You have to learn read between the lines if you wan't to get some deeper information. H.
Ableton Live 9. How would you rate it (1 to 10) ? 10 being Awesome.
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- KVRAF
- 2454 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
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- KVRist
- 208 posts since 16 Mar, 2002 from Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Not sure where you heard this but Robert Henke does not work at Steinberg! He has his band Monolake and teaches at a University.samsam wrote:
IMO, Live went downhill after Robert Henke joined Steinberg, and they've never been the same since.
I think Robert made some great contributions to Ableton, heck there probably wouldn't be Live without him.
I think Ableton has been going through some major growing pains to be honest. They got too successful too fast and have been making sloppy mistakes since. Live 8 was a disaster for almost a year. Another good example is Push, no experience in supply chain and forecasting is the reason that this release has been anything but smooth. They're a great company and have amazing people working there but also have to get less sloppy in running their business. The Live 9 upgrade pricing was a disaster too, etc...
Ken
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- KVRian
- 715 posts since 3 May, 2007 from UK
Hey all 
I have been a Live user since day one. I tried v1 and have been a paid up customer since V2.
I can only give Live 9 a 5/10 and that is being pretty generous. I am just going to quote myself from other threads as to why I feel 9 is a let down:
I have the same issue as others with the new browser. It would be great if you could just navigate to a folder as in the old browser and go up and down the folder trees etc. I think the old browser with a few more location slots and plugin organisation features would have been just fine. Instead they have reinvented the wheel and decided that round is too conventional.
I have found live 9 doesn't update new files quickly enough sometimes and I've had to resort to using the OSX finder for dropping newly created files onto Ableton's gui from outside the program. This is just nuts and a huge step backwards. I like to be in full screen mode as much as possible but that's out for the moment.
Also, I hate that they have decided on a locked architecture / hierarchy in the browser categories and "places".
I don't have any Live packs and never will do, so having that folder as the first "place" is useless to me, I would rather it was my main production / work in progress folder.
Why isn't there a plug in favourites facility?
Why no distinction between plugin effects and plug in instruments?
Why is there no place for racks in the top half of "Places"? - Racks would at least allow you to organise your most used plugins and should be in the top pane with "sounds", clips", "Instruments" and "Audio Effects" etc for consistency and quick access, not in the bottom pane which is for user content and locations.
Why no faciltiy to hide plugins that I don't want to use or clog up my browser?
Why can't I use aliases and shortcuts to make organisation easier?
Why can't I colour code items in the browser for increased efficiency and speed of use?
Why is there no copy command in the right click context menu for files?
Why do I get a spinning beachball just for alt dragging a wav file (copying it) to a new "place"?
When you "minimise" the left most section of the browser pane so that it takes up less width (more like the icons for locations in Live 8 ), all user created folders look the same. Why can't I make/choose icons so that I can have the browser take up less real estate?
In short, why can't I customise these "places" to suit my needs and my workflow?
And that's just the browser!
Opening and closing times are a lot slower than in 8 and I find the closing times in particular a massive problem with my setup.
The new EQ8's method for selecting band filter types is also a massive step backwards as well, as they are now in a menu instead of a one click icon
Spectrum and the EQ analyser are next to useless as they are only viewable on the selected track.
PDC should have been addressed after all the complaints the past few years.
Why can't we have a latency readout and cpu meter per device/track so that pdc issues and cpu problems can be addressed by the user?
As somebody else mentioned, Live is simply not customisable enough.
Also, the following features should have been added but haven't been:
1. Additional functionality for Groups - Group sends, nested groups and ability to freeze groups. Everyone would benefit from this as you could effectively drag whole sets into a new set fully intact (great for studio and live use). Also it would basically make cpu power a non issue as you can freeze massive chunks of any project in one sweep.
2. Ability to select check boxes for a range of tracks in the render dialog so that you can bounce several tracks and go for a bite or a walk and have it all waiting for you upon your return. Perfect for stems or mastering multiple tracks at once.
3. Ability to turn off bug reporting (wastes sooo much time for me). I use third party plugins and accept crashes as it is largely unavoidable sometimes. What I don't accept is Ableton's bug report "feature" making recovering from these crashes take longer than necessary, losing my flow and wasting me hours each month.
4. User assignable key commands. Zero key for mute or deactivate clips/devices is retarded. Again let the user customise their own choice!
5. Midi / max lfo in Live Standard. Give Standard users a couple of Max taster devices. It may make more users want to upgrade to suite/M4L too.
I am still using Live 8 for all production work. I wonder how many other annoying gripes I'll have after actually making a whole track in 9?
Cheers
Scorb
I have been a Live user since day one. I tried v1 and have been a paid up customer since V2.
I can only give Live 9 a 5/10 and that is being pretty generous. I am just going to quote myself from other threads as to why I feel 9 is a let down:
I have the same issue as others with the new browser. It would be great if you could just navigate to a folder as in the old browser and go up and down the folder trees etc. I think the old browser with a few more location slots and plugin organisation features would have been just fine. Instead they have reinvented the wheel and decided that round is too conventional.
I have found live 9 doesn't update new files quickly enough sometimes and I've had to resort to using the OSX finder for dropping newly created files onto Ableton's gui from outside the program. This is just nuts and a huge step backwards. I like to be in full screen mode as much as possible but that's out for the moment.
Also, I hate that they have decided on a locked architecture / hierarchy in the browser categories and "places".
I don't have any Live packs and never will do, so having that folder as the first "place" is useless to me, I would rather it was my main production / work in progress folder.
Why isn't there a plug in favourites facility?
Why no distinction between plugin effects and plug in instruments?
Why is there no place for racks in the top half of "Places"? - Racks would at least allow you to organise your most used plugins and should be in the top pane with "sounds", clips", "Instruments" and "Audio Effects" etc for consistency and quick access, not in the bottom pane which is for user content and locations.
Why no faciltiy to hide plugins that I don't want to use or clog up my browser?
Why can't I use aliases and shortcuts to make organisation easier?
Why can't I colour code items in the browser for increased efficiency and speed of use?
Why is there no copy command in the right click context menu for files?
Why do I get a spinning beachball just for alt dragging a wav file (copying it) to a new "place"?
When you "minimise" the left most section of the browser pane so that it takes up less width (more like the icons for locations in Live 8 ), all user created folders look the same. Why can't I make/choose icons so that I can have the browser take up less real estate?
In short, why can't I customise these "places" to suit my needs and my workflow?
And that's just the browser!
Opening and closing times are a lot slower than in 8 and I find the closing times in particular a massive problem with my setup.
The new EQ8's method for selecting band filter types is also a massive step backwards as well, as they are now in a menu instead of a one click icon
Spectrum and the EQ analyser are next to useless as they are only viewable on the selected track.
PDC should have been addressed after all the complaints the past few years.
Why can't we have a latency readout and cpu meter per device/track so that pdc issues and cpu problems can be addressed by the user?
As somebody else mentioned, Live is simply not customisable enough.
Also, the following features should have been added but haven't been:
1. Additional functionality for Groups - Group sends, nested groups and ability to freeze groups. Everyone would benefit from this as you could effectively drag whole sets into a new set fully intact (great for studio and live use). Also it would basically make cpu power a non issue as you can freeze massive chunks of any project in one sweep.
2. Ability to select check boxes for a range of tracks in the render dialog so that you can bounce several tracks and go for a bite or a walk and have it all waiting for you upon your return. Perfect for stems or mastering multiple tracks at once.
3. Ability to turn off bug reporting (wastes sooo much time for me). I use third party plugins and accept crashes as it is largely unavoidable sometimes. What I don't accept is Ableton's bug report "feature" making recovering from these crashes take longer than necessary, losing my flow and wasting me hours each month.
4. User assignable key commands. Zero key for mute or deactivate clips/devices is retarded. Again let the user customise their own choice!
5. Midi / max lfo in Live Standard. Give Standard users a couple of Max taster devices. It may make more users want to upgrade to suite/M4L too.
I am still using Live 8 for all production work. I wonder how many other annoying gripes I'll have after actually making a whole track in 9?
Cheers
Scorb
I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored...
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- KVRian
- 737 posts since 24 Mar, 2013 from Amsterdam
I haven't used Live 8 but am currently demoing Live 9 as I'm contemplating jumping ships from Sonar X2. I like the creative workflow in Live (Session View and warping Audio) and feel I'm much quicker getting ideas out.
What I have trouble adapting to is the cramped workspace (although I like the looks of the GUI) especially when browsing as I have sub/sub/sub folder hierarchies, no floating docks, no multi-screen support and the PDC-issues.
As I am fairly new to working with DAWs though I must say that in terms of user-friendlyness Live is unmatched with the Help View and the abundance of resources scattered around the web and YouTube. I realise Live might not be targeted at pro-studios but for bedroom producers like myself I feel it's got a lot to offer and has you up and running in no time.
I think this is sometimes overlooked by more experienced users. If you know your way around a studio you can easily adjust to a new DAW but for newcomers having access to a huge community and resources is a big plus.
Taking the 2.0 component in consideration I'd give it an 8.
What I have trouble adapting to is the cramped workspace (although I like the looks of the GUI) especially when browsing as I have sub/sub/sub folder hierarchies, no floating docks, no multi-screen support and the PDC-issues.
As I am fairly new to working with DAWs though I must say that in terms of user-friendlyness Live is unmatched with the Help View and the abundance of resources scattered around the web and YouTube. I realise Live might not be targeted at pro-studios but for bedroom producers like myself I feel it's got a lot to offer and has you up and running in no time.
I think this is sometimes overlooked by more experienced users. If you know your way around a studio you can easily adjust to a new DAW but for newcomers having access to a huge community and resources is a big plus.
Taking the 2.0 component in consideration I'd give it an 8.
Win8.1 64x/Live 9/Steinberg UR44/Roland HP 235/Edirol PCR-800/Eastman AC222/Washburn D12/Ch. Les Paul/Behringer BCF2000 & BCR2000/Korg Nanopad 2/Focusrite VRM Box/AT 2020/2xB5/E825s/Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250/Tannoy 502
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- KVRAF
- 1596 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina
All good points, that especially. Racks are such a powerful part of Live (and oddly underutilized from what I've seen), and when 9's new browser was announced I envisioned being able to wrap my most used plugins and effects in racks, organize the hierarchy, and use favorites to avoid the physical hierarchy altogether.djscorb wrote:Hey all
Why is there no place for racks in the top half of "Places"? - Racks would at least allow you to organise your most used plugins and should be in the top pane with "sounds", clips", "Instruments" and "Audio Effects" etc for consistency and quick access, not in the bottom pane which is for user content and locations.
...
In short, why can't I customise these "places" to suit my needs and my workflow?
...
You can almost get there, but it's not fluid or intuitive. From an indie dev, new, or less expensive product I'd be cheering the improvement, but from Ableton it's a bit of a letdown. Context...
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- KVRAF
- 1796 posts since 4 Sep, 2011 from England
10 because it does all I need and they added 64bit and two Cytomic plugins to the standard version upgrade.
Cytomic added:-
EQ Eight analogue style EQ
The Glue bus compressor, an SSL console compressor emulation.
I know some users didn't get all they asked for in the 9 upgrade but I put that down to Ableton having too much to do recoding all of it to 64bit.
Cytomic added:-
EQ Eight analogue style EQ
The Glue bus compressor, an SSL console compressor emulation.
I know some users didn't get all they asked for in the 9 upgrade but I put that down to Ableton having too much to do recoding all of it to 64bit.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1920 posts since 23 Sep, 2005
Thanks for the feedback. You are the first and only Live 9 user who gives it a 10 up to this pointKaboom75 wrote:10 because it does all I need and they added 64bit and two Cytomic plugins to the standard version upgrade.
Cytomic added:-
EQ Eight analogue style EQ
The Glue bus compressor, an SSL console compressor emulation.
I know some users didn't get all they asked for in the 9 upgrade but I put that down to Ableton having too much to do recoding all of it to 64bit.
Cheers,
Muziksculp
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dredd i knight dredd i knight https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=156133 - KVRist
- 441 posts since 24 Jul, 2007 from london
Great thread!
Very useful for me, because I like Live 8 a lot, and have been on the fence about upgrading....
Judging from this thread, I'm thinking I should wait for some of the kinks to get ironed out first.
Also read on the Ableton site that the vol, pan and transpose buttons have been taken from clip view to facilitate Push integration which seems bizarre to say the least:
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=192691
I hope Ableton are willing to sort out some of the things I've read here and on their site, because right now, if Bitwig appears, and is stable I think they may well lose a lot of customers...
Very useful for me, because I like Live 8 a lot, and have been on the fence about upgrading....
Judging from this thread, I'm thinking I should wait for some of the kinks to get ironed out first.
Also read on the Ableton site that the vol, pan and transpose buttons have been taken from clip view to facilitate Push integration which seems bizarre to say the least:
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=192691
I hope Ableton are willing to sort out some of the things I've read here and on their site, because right now, if Bitwig appears, and is stable I think they may well lose a lot of customers...